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List member FAQS:
http://listmembersfaq.emaillist-managers.com/archives/
Also:
http://listmembersfaq.emaillist-managers.com/
Abbreviations
They can be lowercase, too. A few are:
AAMOF -as a matter of fact,
AFAIK - as far as I know
B4N - bye for now
BTW - by the way
CMIIW - correct me if I'm wrong
DD: Dear Daughter,
DH: Dear Husband
DS: Dear Son
FIL: Father in Law
FOH: one of our group terms, means "Friends of Hoarders" support group
FWIW - for what it's worth
HTH: Hope this helps
IAC - in any case
IKWUM - I know what you mean
IMHO - in my humble opinion
IOW - in other words
KWIM - know what I mean
LOL - laughing out loud
MIL-Mother in Law
NBIF - no basis in fact
OTOH - on the other hand
ROTFL - rolling on the floor laughing (+MAO=my a** off)
TIA - thanks in advance
WTF-what the ****?
Emoticons: Also referred to as smileys, these symbols help convey tone or emotion in a message.
Some examples:
:-) happy
:) smile
:-( sad
;-) wink
:-o shock
surprise
:->devilish
:/ hmmm. . .
Go here to make a new post to the group:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/post
Type your reply in text box. (be sure to fill in subject line)
Hit "send."
You can also send the group a post via email, by addressing your email to:
childrenofhoarders@yahoogroups.com
To view the replies (and most recent posts from other members too), go here:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/messages
If you have selected "email delivery" in your personal group profile, (Edit Membership) you will get any responses emailed to you. This includes an email of every post made in the group as well.
Searching Message Archives by topic, member name & post #
On the home page to the group , above where the messages start to be listed, you will find a SEARCH BOX on the upper-right. Enter your search term in that box and click "search."
You can also enter a member name or email address in that box to locate posts written by a specific member. (You can also click on the "Advanced Search" option link to narrow down your searches by date period, etc.)
To search by a MESSAGE #, while at the group home page, above the messages at the upper-left, you will find a link for "View All." Click on that and a page will appear that will provide you with two search boxes. One to enter in a message # to search for, or a search term. Enter the message # you are looking for in the box on the left and click "GO."
Note: While viewing the messages from the group site, you will find there are various options to view messages-"Expand" (where you will see all of the message), "Simplified" (where you will only see a part), group by topic (where only one message about that subject/in that thread will be showing, and "list individually."
Direct link to search archives.
Deleting messages
You can delete your own messages but not another member's. Click the checkbox to the left or your message while in "View All Messages" mode and then select the "delete" button at the top or bottom of the page.
Changing Message Delivery Options
Too much group clutter? Want it to stop?
If you get the posts individually to your inbox (default setting when you join), you can switch to getting them grouped all at once in a "Daily Digest" or not even get them at all.
By selecting "No Mail" you won't get messages, but will remain a member of the group to read them when you feel like it. At the bottom of each message post you receive, you will find links to " Changing Message Delivery options". If you want to change your delivery options from the group site, go to " Edit Profile" at the top of the page, once there.
Step by Step To change the way you receive messages from the COH Group,...
Go to:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/
Look at the top of page, find/click on " Edit Membership"
From that page, look for "Step #2" towards the middle of the page,
which is where you set your message delivery. Choices are:
Individual Email-The option to choose if you want to get each group
message and special notice individually and immediately, as it is
posted.
Daily Digest-The option to choose if you want to see all messages but
limit the amount of email you receive. We'll compile an email of up
to 25 messages and send daily (special notices too!).
Special Notices - Receive only important email notices from the group
moderator.
Web Only - Don't get notified of the latest happenings. Read messages
only on the web/at the group home page. (Meaning, you go to:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/ to read the
messages that have been posted-No Clutter in your inbox! ) :)
Need help? No problem! Just email our moderators by going
to "members" in the menu on the left and clicking on the moderator
tab at the top of the page.
You can preview your message before sending it
If you are posting directly at the group, and not through your mail,
Yahoo has a nice little feature where you can preview your message
before you send it. At the very bottom, under where you type your
message, you will see a 'Preview' button. If you click on this, you
will see what your post will look like when posted. If it looks all
jumbled up to you, and hard to read, this is how it will look to all
of us.
"Trimming" Messages & posting hints
Please try to:
-Trim messages (only include what you are replying to in response, since most of us will have read original message already. When this isn't done, it make the Daily Digest of messages very long and boring to read and can turn members off from reading it.
More info. on how to do that can be found at this helpful site.)
The most important thing is YOU POST-if you are having a hard time "trimming", we won't be upset, just please keep it in mind.
-Change subject line to reflect topic if it changes. (helps with future message searches on the topic)
-General list etiquette info.:
http://www.marthas-web.com/groups.htm
-FAQ's about email groups:
http://listmembersfaq.emaillist-managers.com/
Confidentiality Agreement
No personal posts or materials posted are to be printed, forwarded, copied or in any way removed from this board or website forums without the expressed consent of the author. Continued membership in the Yahoo Group/website forums implies you agree to this policy.
The copyright to COH stories and experiences submitted to our board(s) are retained by their authors (i.e. individual posters); all rights are reserved. The authors maintain proprietary right to all stories and experiences unless and until it is waived. If you intend to use or distribute any of the COH stories or experiences for a commercial purpose, you must contact the individual authors for written permission to do so.
Group Posting Guidelines
The focus of our group is on children of hoarders and the challenges they face as a result of that status. Off-topic or abusive posts are discouraged, and members who persistently post disruptive,abusive, off-topic posts will be asked to leave the group at the discretion of the moderators.
Certain topics are viewed as particularly problematic, including politics and some types of religious discussion. Individuals wishing to share ideas on such topics are asked to do so off-board privately. Recognizing that religious perspectives sometimes play an important role in the COH experience, please see the section below entitled *Religious Posts* for guidelines to help to decide whether specific religious content will be considered "on-topic" for our boards, and therefore acceptable for general posting.
In general, however, we ask that members assume that good intentions motivate the postings of other members, and that they are civil to each other when controversy or misunderstanding arises. When a member feels that someone is ignoring the posting guidelines or is being inappropriate or disruptive, they are encouraged to attempt to resolve the issue privately and directly with the other member or to seek the private assistance of a moderator BEFORE submitting complaints to the entire group.
*RELIGIOUS POSTS*
The Children of Hoarders Website Forums & Yahoo Group are tolerant of all religious perspectives- both in terms of belief and non-belief. We are a diverse and large group, and as such, we remind everyone to keep in mind the many different perspectives that exist here. The nature of recovery from difficult experiences (like ours) often leads people to a faith in something more powerful. We respect that choice. Sometimes, it has the opposite effect-and we respect that too. We appreciate anything and everything that brings comfort and inspiration to a COH, but in the context of our support boards, we ask that everyone respect the beliefs (or non-beliefs) of others and keep religious commentary to a minimum. It is generally acceptable to post as follows:
-Describing the role religion played in your relationship with your hoarding parent;
-Describing the role religion played in hoarding behavior;
-Telling someone "you will pray for them" and requesting others to pray for you;
-Saying "God Bless you," "Thanks be to God/Higher Power," or "Blessings;"
-Describing how your ‘Higher Power,’ faith, prayer, or other spiritual practice(s) gave/gives you strength to get through a difficult situation.
Out of consideration for the feelings of others and in keeping with the focus of our particular discussion board(s), we ask that posters refrain from posting: passages/quotes from any particular religious/spiritual text (e.g., the Bible, Koran, Buddhist texts, and others) or anything else that represents a particular belief system with which others may not identify. Any debates about religion or belief systems, we ask, respectfully, to be done off our discussion boards.
Other Considerations for the group in general:
-At the COH group, we understand that we all have things that we feel very strongly about, as well as our own "hot buttons."
Please avoid flaming (personal abusive attacks intended to incite, degrade, make fun of another person or their ideas with no positive outcome).
Please respect other people's right to have to their own opinion just as you have your opinion. The group moderators should be contacted if you cannot resolve the issue privately with another member.
We respectfully repeat, disagreements between members should *not* be posted for board discussion. -Because emotions, inflections, humorous intents and lightheartedness are difficult to convey through posts, we suggest the following when reading and posting: " Assume Good Faith" & "Remain Civil".
*DISCLAIMER* The moderators of our discussion groups are not a doctors, therapists or counselors. The information here is not intended, and should not be used to replace the care or diagnosis of a medical professional or therapist. While we try to make this group as safe as possible for members to share amongst other COH & their spouses only, we cannot guarantee that some members are not who this group was intended for, and gave false information to join.
If you have hoarding tendencies or hoard
If you are a COH who hoards or has tendencies to hoard, we don't know if this is the right group for you, but you will be the best judge of that!
This particular group does not focus on the recovery steps from hoarding, but more on the effects it has on family members and how we can help our loved ones suffering from it. Here is some information that will hopefully be of help to you though!:
Some sections from Overcoming Compulsive Hoarding book & exercises
(you will need a password & username to access, they both are: coh )
Some Self-Help Tools for you:
Tools for self-help, main page on COH site
Cost-Benefit Analysis for Compulsive Hoarders
Dysfunctional Thought Record
Inspirational Quotes
Online Support Groups
Questions to ask yourself while decluttering
Rating Your Anxiety Level (SUDS)
You can also visit these new discussion forums for those who hoard or have the tendencies:
http://compulsivesaving.proboards57.com/
Photo Albums, adding photos
From the group home page you will find a menu on the left-side of the page with a link to our Photo Album section where members have uploaded their photos. You can create your own album too if you'd like. Here's how...
1. Go to the group home page
2. In the menu on the left, click PHOTOS
3. In the upper right-hand corner of that page you will see "Create Photo Album".
4. You will be asked to name your album & for a description.
5. Click "Personal Album" so only you can add photos to your album.
6. Then...upload the photos one by one from where you have them saved on your computer. Add a description too if you'd like.
There is also an album for "COH Having Fun" and we hope you'll have something to add to that group album too sometime!
File Section
From the group home page you will find a menu on the left-side of the page with a link to our file section, which members are welcome to contribute to. The direct link to the file section is here.
Poll Section
From the group home page you will find a menu on the left-side of the page with a link to our poll section.
Once in a great while there will be the need for a poll to be conducted. Most of these polls, however, are from the very beginning of the group's existence,when we were just discovering other COH for the first time. Feel free to continue to vote in any you want. Members can also create their own poll for the group by clicking "create poll" while browsing that section. Feel free to! Direct link to polls.
Unsubscribing
Click on the link to "Unsubscribe" at the bottom of the emailed message post or go to "edit profile" from the group home page.
Don't forget to confirm your request to unsubscribe that will be emailed to you to complete this. We send no parting surveys to complete.
**When you send the email to unsubscribe, it goes to Yahoo, not to the group or the moderators. So, if you write anything with your unsubscribe request,... we will never see it, unless you email a copy to the moderators/ owners separately.**
Humor, About use of it in our group
When you can't cry anymore, many of us choose to laugh, as our coping mechanism. However, some of the humor used in this group might not be funny to everyone, especially those with hoarding tendencies. We understand that this group is not going to be a good fit for everyone, and we leave that up to each member to decide on their own. While we hope it won't offend, the use of humor will always be welcome, in whatever form, in this particular group.
Post from a member:
| Quote: |
"Honestly, I think this might be the most important dynamic of the COH group, in reassuring us that YES! Your view is NOT crazy, this IS unhealthy and the hoarder's avoidance/blame is just a coping mechanism or aspect of the illness because it is NOT just the hoarder's reaction to YOU and all the other family members who 'don't understand.'
Truly, I have been able to let go of so much anger and frustration knowing that this IS a disorder and that others experience it in the same way.What has been healthy for me in the short time I have been here is to finally laugh about some of things my mom does. Some of it is sooooo crazy and I never had anyone to share it with. Let alone anyone who identified with what I talking about.
Now I can look at some of this and say yes it is crazy & even find some humor in the craziness!For example, shortly after I joined I asked about if anyone else had a parent who used a little notebook to keep track of who knows what. I received several humorous replies from others who knew exactly what I was talking about. It is good to finally laugh about some of this. So much of what we deal with is serious & can be just down right depressing, but the interjections of humor help to keep things in perspective, at least for me!"-xxxx |
Some Vocabulary/Terms regarding Compulsive Hoarding & Related
A.P.S.
Adult Protective Services
CBT:
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
Churn/Churning:
The act of moving things around and not getting rid
D.H.S.
Department of Health (DHHS=Dept. Health & Human Services)
E.R.P.
Exposure & Response/Ritual Prevention: A type of ...
...Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that is designed to break two types of associations that occur in OCD: The association between objects and situations that cause distress, the association between carrying out ritualistic behavior to decrease distress. A method of therapy for treating Hoarding.The goal is to demonstrate we can have thoughts and experience distress without participating in rituals (rituals are "banned" for full immersion in anxiety)without losing control or "having to shut anxiety down." This is to show rituals are short term anxiety relievers that in fact increase obsessions, and that rituals are not the only way to decrease anxiety.
Exposure
A procedure/therapy technique in which you are purposely confronted with objects or situations that promote distress and stay in those situations without performing rituals ("banned")long enough for anxiety to decrease by itself.
Habituation
The process of learning to tolerate an anxiety-producing situation through exposure.
P.O.A.
Power of Attorney
SUDS Levels
Subjective Units of Distress. "Anxiety temperature." A way of measuring the anxiety levels from 1-10 (re: hoarding; while discarding or at place of acquisition.)
More info.:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh26.php
Senile Squalor Syndrome
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/cache/1053818943.htm
Syllogomania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding
Vocabulary We Made Up and Use
COH:
"Children of Hoarders"
"Clean Hoard" is a term we came up with in our COH Group for Hoarding situations that don't have the animal/human waste...or where our parents don't necessarily let the dirty dishes pile up, let the litter boxes overflow, keep their bathrooms as clean as they can, etc. They just have a TON of STUFF."
"Dirty Hoard"
is what we call the opposite of clean hoard-which sometimes may include their personal hygiene practices as well, unfortunately.
C.O.H.S.C.S.
member/moderator created!
| Quote: |
Sometimes I get confused about who is doing a cleanout, and what all events are going on soon. So I had a thought. It's obviously optional, but it'll be short, sweet, and simple.
I want to try having a COH Status Check
It's kind of like the Homeland Security Advisory System.
Green is low risk of stressful interactions with the hoarder(s) or
issues having to do with hoarding. In other words, you don't expect to have to deal with it at all this weekend. Unless Donna and Nash "make" me take a complete break from here and the website, I don't ever get to green.
Blue is general risk of stressful interactions with the hoarder(s) or
issues having to do with hoarding. You'll see or talk to your hoarder
but things have been quiet the last few conversations, and nobody in the family has given you any reason to believe that things are about to blow up. This weekend my status is blue.
Yellow is significant risk of stressful interactions with the
hoarder(s) or issues having to do with hoarding. You know that things are nearing a flash point. Mount Crapsuvious has been rumbling a lot recently, and maybe belching a little steam now and them, but the exact moment of eruption is still uncertain.
Orange is high risk of stressful interactions with the hoarder(s) or
issues having to do with hoarding. I'd guess that Tracy is probably at an Orange Status with her talk coming up on Tuesday, and she'll
probably move to Red by Sunday night or Monday morning. This is when there have been some recent blow ups. The hoarder has been on the offensive, and you have that knot in your stomach thinking about the next conversation. You're expecting a blow up.
Red is severe risk of stressful interactions with the hoarder(s) or
issues having to do with hoarding. A planned cleanout this weekend falls into this category. Making the decision to rat out(a.k.a. notify the authorities) your hoarder needs to be made this weekend. You're going to visit the hoarder but not allow the grandkids inside the house.
Okay, so that's my first swipe at a COH Status Check System. As I
said, I'm Blue for this weekend.
Time to check in(I hope I don't even have to say that this is
optional). I know there are some lurkers out there. This is an easy
and fun way to start posting. All you have to do is hit Reply, erase
this message, type one word, and press send.
norse |
Green: Low risk of stressful interactions with hoarder.
Blue: General risk will see or talk to hoarder, but things quiet on the hoarding front.
Yellow: Significant risk. Eruption of Mt. Crapsuvious watch in effect.
Orange: High risk of stressful interactions. Recent blow-up...Mt. Crapsuvious is bubbling & steaming.
RED: SEVERE RISK. Planned clean-out going on, authorities intervening or visit to hoarded home.
Mt. Crapsuvious has erupted.
C.O.H.U.G.E.T.
COH Unhealthy Guilt Erradication Team, created by a member...
What is COHUGET?
Post from a member, (norse) 8/2006:
| Quote: |
Initially I was concerned about some of the guilt that various people in the group were experiencing. It seemed like it wasn't really guilt that they had done anything to deserve, so this post was the result:
Guilt is not necessarily a bad thing. Guilt can be like pain. Pain is nature's way of telling people that whatever they just did is not something that they should repeat. Healthy guilt is a good thing, especially if I am listening to my inner voice. The majority of people have a problem with not feeling guilty often enough, especially in this day and age of "You don't have any right to judge me."
COH on the other hand have a tendancy to have the opposite problem. Because our hoarders frequently blame us for their problems (see above paragraph), we often accept that blame because.... Well, let's face it, we didn't have the tools emotionally to reply back that the problem wasn't that we weren't doing enough around the house. We were dependant on our parents for survival and we didn't really have any other option other than accepting the guilt.
Well, I am writing today on behalf of the COH Unhealthy Guilt Erradication team. I have very good news for everyone here at COH. Today and tomorrow are officially "No Unhealthy Guilt for All COH members" weekend. Now since many of us struggle with knowing whether a specific guilty feeling is healthy or not, I will provide a list of healthy versus unhealthy guilt.
HEALTHY GUILT
-Murder
-Hurting animals intentionally(except for recognized pests)
-Child abuse
-Setting off nuclear weapons
UNHEALTHY GUILT
-Not knowing what to do in regard to our hoarder
-Finding humor in the situation our hoarders have put us in
-Telling our hoarder how they have affected us
-Not telling our hoarder how they have affected us
-Calling the state to report our hoarders
-Not calling the state to report our hoarders
-Cleaning out the hoard without their knowledge or permission
-Not cleaning out the hoard
For the rest of the weekend, you don't have to feel guilty. You have done the best job you knew how to. Venting your feelings here any way that helps you (sarcasm, laughter, ranting, anger, etc..) is a very good thing. There is no better or safer place to do that. We have been beatup, injured, and yes abused by our hoarders. Read that last line again. Your emotions are okay, whatever they are. Enjoy the weekend. Your hoarder and your guilt will be there Monday, unless this is a massive cleanout weekend for you, and you probably won't be reading this anyway.
For those who are doing clean outs this weekend, the next 4 days after the cleanout are your No Unhealthy Guilt days (You deserve the double days). Now, take the guilt off and put it down someplace out of the way. The back of the coat closet, or under the kitchen sink are two suggestions. There doesn't that feel better? Enjoy!!-xxxx--- |
Another post following the above:
| Quote: |
That seemed to strike a chord with people so I decided it needed an acronym because the full name was too much to type over and over. So COHUGET was launched....... From now until the end of the weekend, the COHUGET (pronounced co- huge-tee) has declared a "No Unhealthy Guilt" warning. This is a warning, not a watch. That means that you need to stash your unhealthy guilt now and leave it stashed until Monday morning. The previous stash sites are acceptable (under the kitchen sink, behind the fridge), but the recommended unhealthy guilt stashing site is under the nearest pile of dog excrement. The nastier the better, that way you will be much less inclined to retrieve it before Monday morning. Notice that I did not say "your dogs....". The ownership of the dog is irreverent. NO WAIT!!!! I am irreverent. The ownership of the dog is irrelevant. We hope you enjoy the weekend free of the burden of the guilt that you should never have been given. It wasn't your fault, it isn't your fault, and it never will be your fault! -xxxx |
C.O.H.W.H.A.M.M.I.E.
Children Of Hoarders Whose Hopes About Miraculous Mess Improvement Expired (Given up on helping or change)
P.I.S.S.
Post Intervention Stress Sydrome
Refers to the emotions felt, similar to PTSD, after an intervention or clean-out, whether successful or not.
Created by a member:
Wed Aug 30, 2006
| Quote: |
"It seems like the majority of COH have a significant let down after an intervention. It seems like it doesn't matter a whole lot whether the intervention was a complete success, a partial success, or extremely disappointing.My guess is that the pre-intervention period creates huge amounts of hope, and anticipation, the intervention itself involves incredible amounts of stress trying to keep all the balls in the air and deal with the raw nerves, frayed tempers, etc. No matter the outcome there is a huge let down when it is all over.It can take weeks, and sometimes longer to get through. I think it could be a very good resource to have some of the people coming off of interventions sort of keep a diary of sorts here. We could offer our own experiences and see if there is any consistency. It might be helpful for COH that are preparing for their first intervention to know that this is a normal reaction.
-xxxx
PS: The acronym was an accident, but I love it!!!!!Post-Intervention Stress Syndrome a.k.a. PISS.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
More on P.I.S.S. |
Wonderful Strangers:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/private/topics.html#WS
(password/username: coh)
W.U.E.D.
"Walls up, Expectations Down",
term created by two members (norse/nashbabe) about being careful not to get hopes up.
Additional:
Read all the messages in a thread/Tips for reading in "expand mode"
This info. came from the files of a group called Recipe World:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Our_Recipe_World :
| Quote: |
If you come to the group to read the messages, like I do in all my
groups, when you click on the 'Messages' link over to the left, you
will see another link at the upper left of the message list. It is
titled "Expand Messages", click on that and all the messages will
open up at once. Kind of like the daily digest option in mail. I find
it much easier to sift through the messages like this.
Many people also don't know about the 'Thread' feature on the groups.
If you go to the Message link to the left, when you get to that page,
you will see at the upper right, and the bottom right of the messages
a 'Thread' link. This will make the messages appear sorted by
threads, instead of in order by date and time.
More tips:
While you have all the messages opened up, and you see one that you
want to reply to, this is what I do:
I click on the message number itself, while holding down the shift
key. This opens up a new window for you to reply in. Then, when you
are done replying, close out your new window and you will still be on
your same expanded page.
Another thing I do for my busy groups is while the expanded page is
open, click on any blank spot on that page, and right click, and
select 'Create Shortcut'. This will create a shortcut on your desktop
so you can go right back to where you were when you left off. This is
especially helpful in busy groups, or when you go on vacation or
something. |
COH Site Bookstore
With books that have been recommended by members over the past couple years. (listed in the bookstore so they are all together-don't feel you should buy them from there-the commission on sales towards site ops is so tiny, it doesn't make much difference, so if you find it cheaper on Amazon/other-get it there!)
On Understanding Hoarding
Books geared towards healing for COH
Books on Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD)
Books on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)
How To/Guides for cleaning for those who may not have learned
"Conquering Clutter" books
Books on Depression
Books on Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
Organizing How To Books
Books on Perfectionism
Videos and audios about Hoarding or films that may depict our situations
Member Directory:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/database
Some backgrounds on members of the COH group:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/private/backgrounds.html
Contact group moderators:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/childrenofhoarders/members?group=mod
Tracy's Story:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh5.php
Crisis Cleaning advice:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh14.php
Quote: |
We'd discussed it a bit before, but I just thought I'd throw some
info into the "causes of hoarding discussion" about Attention Deficit
(Hyperactivity) Disorder. I don't think ADD (or ADHD if you prefer)
is the sole cause of hoarding, but lots of the traits could contribute to it. Since I was diagnosed with ADHD--inattentive type, I can see how my attributes, taken to the extreme, could contribute to hoarding. For those who are new to the discussion, ADD does not necessarily involve hyperactivity, and usually doesn't "go away" in adulthood.
Recently there are lots of people, especially women, who are being diagnosed as adults (if you're not hyperactive, and not a "problem" and are smart enough to compensate, you're not going to get diagnosed). Do you know anyone who's smart but just can't seem to "get it together"? It could be ADD. Here are the traits I think are relevant (not an exhaustive list):
Organizational/attention problems:
*being easily distracted from a task, lesson, or conversation
*difficulty keeping the mind on any one thing
*getting bored with a task before it's completed
*difficulty listening when directly addressed
*disorganization and forgetfulness
*needs high stimulation in order to focus (sometimes manifests as a
feeling of needing "more more more!")
Yet:
*Ability to hyperfocus on a project to the exclusion of everything
else
Impulsivity problems:
*talk excessively
*blurt out answers before questions are completed
*speak tactlessly or inappropriately
*exhibit difficulty waiting
*interrupt or intrude on others
Poor executive function (this is the big one!):
*poor sense of time and timing
*inconsistency
*low boiling point for frustration
*poor judgment
The traits I've noticed in myself that contribute to my own clutter
issues (which thankfully are minimal) are 1) inability to deal with
decisions that aren't of the "right now" variety--if I don't know
what do with a piece of paper immediately (if I don't already have a
file for it, or it's a "someday" thing), it goes into one of many
piles.
I immediately forget about the pile! Churn the piles and
remove everything that is out of date. Repeat.
2) inability to gauge
time or to be able to tell how long it will take me to do something--
I'll get around to doing that project "someday"
3) lots of ideas but
not following through on them--The hardest thing for me to let go if
are things that are for "someday" projects
4) a complete hatred of
routine tasks--in my case it's doing my dishes. It's not even
conscious. But given the choice between doing the same old thing or
doing something new and exciting, I'll choose doing the new thing
most of the time unless under threat (like someone is coming over).
Oh no, another whole day has gone by while I was happily engaged
doing some silly project, and now it's time to go to bed! Believe or
not, this is different from laziness!
I have a good friend who has ADD and he is a good coach. I tell him
about the crap I'm hanging onto for future craft projects and he
says "you won't do them". "But maybe I will?!" "No, trust me, you
won't." And he's right, of course. People with ADD often
aren't "living up to their potential", and sometimes those undone
projects represent that potential. I think throwing stuff out is like
losing a piece of your potential--sometimes your *potential* worth is
all you have going for you if you're not feeling very worthy in the
present.
Luckily (?), my brand of impulsivity leads me to do rash things like
throw away/give away half my possessions at a time, so I don't end up like Mom (see the pics in my folder if you want to know why). I've
thrown away all my high school yearbooks, my high school diploma, all the letters I ever received, etc.
Self-centeredness and an inability to read social cues are also ADD
traits, unfortunately. Like many of your Moms, (it's mostly Moms,
isn't it?) mine interrupts me as if I'm not even saying anything
important, doesn't know me and doesn't seem to care, monologues about crap only she is interested in, can't read body language (Mom, that person is trying to back away from you because they can tell you're bat$#@* crazy and don't want to hear about your cats), etc.
Embarrassingly, I also interrupt, go off on tangents, fail to listen,
etc., but at least I remember to get back to the subject at hand, ask
the other person questions about themself, to repeat the parts I
missed, write down important info, etc. But somehow in my Mom the
inattention has turned into full-blown narcissism so I think there is
also a personality disorder at work there. Just my theory.
Sorry if you feel like the guinea pigs for my ADD-Awareness Soapbox, but like the study of hoarding, this and other neurological disorders are a very new field. (I have a feeling they will eventually learn that all this stuff is strongly intertwined.) Take what you can use, or ignore it all!
Here's one of many websites about it:
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm
Self-centeredly, ramblingly, tangentially, but unapologetically (for
the long post), :) |
 ADD Online Evaluation Test
(by Amen Clinics)
Adult Children of Alcoholic's Characteristics & Roles
Adult Children of Alcoholic's Characteristics (ACOA) & Roles
The following information came from here (pdf file)
Many non-ACoAs find that the following descriptions also fit them.
The traumas of living with emotionally absent or abusive parents manifest themselves in many ways. An alcoholic family is but one form the problem can take.
Suggestions for ACOAs:(or other adult children of dysfunction)
*Become involved in Alanon and/or Adult Children of Alcoholics meetings, and in individual therapy. By doing this, you will learn:
you are not alone in your pain; and you can learn ways to move beyond the harm you experienced as a child. (If you are concerned that you cannot afford individual counseling, check with local clergy
as many offer counseling services. There are also mental health or treatment providers who offer their services based on income levels.) Your mental health is priceless. You owe it to yourself to seek options for becoming healthy.
*Develop support systems by making those close to you aware of your decision to seek counseling. (Alanon or ACoA groups and counselors will help to provide such a system of support.) Share your decision with friends and family members who will encourage you. Do not share your decision with people who will question you or belittle your decision.
*Learn how to ask for help. (If you go to an Alanon or ACoA group, counselors and fellow ACoAs can help you learn this. In time, you will learn whom you can trust with your struggles.)
*Recognize that you have the right to talk about these issues and you have the right to experience and express emotions.
*If you have children, learn about child development. Seek out and participate in a parent education course to learn skills for relating to your children.
*Check with your local public library for books on this topic to help you understand and overcome a chaotic childhood.
*Finally, know that as an adult, you have survived a childhood that was affected by alcoholism and now you can thrive. It won't be easy, but it will be worth the effort. As the old truism notes, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." Start today. Take that life-changing step!
-------------------------------------
Notes:
(1) If you feel that your life is described by these characteristics, please know that you are not alone. Help is available.
(2) This list of characteristics should be read as descriptions, and not as indictments. Initially, ACoAs may see these characteristics as deficits and liabilities.
However, with time and healing, they can become assets. By making changes in their lives, ACoAs can break the cycle of destruction caused by alcoholism (or similar dysfunction) so that their children will not have to experience the same problems and pain.
Characteristics of Adult Children of Alcoholics
When growing up, children of alcoholics learn several basic family survival tactics: don't talk, don't trust and don't feel. A commonly asked question is, "Can a person ever outgrow the effects of growing up as the child of an alcoholic?" The answer is yes, but it is not easy.
Adults who survived a childhood environment where an alcoholic was in residence may continue to experience problems unless they make some life changes. Adult children of alcoholics need to accept the fact that their parent's alcohol abuse negatively affected not only their childhood, but also their adult years. Many adult children of alcoholics continue to support the "don't talk" rule and deny that there were problems in the homes of their youth.
Others might admit that they lived in a chaotic home, but argue that it no longer affects them.
This is rarely true. In his book, A Primer on Adult Children of Alcoholics, Dr. Timmen L. Cermak lists sixteen characteristics that adult children of alcoholics (ACoAs) frequently display. In brief, these characteristics are:
*Fear of losing control.
ACoAs maintain control of their feelings and behavior. In addition,
they try to control the feelings and behavior of others. They do not do this to hurt themselves or others, but because they are afraid. They fear their lives will get worse if they lose control and they become uncomfortable and anxious when they cannot control situations, feelings and behaviors.
*Fear of feelings.
Since childhood and continuing as adults, ACoAs have buried their feelings
(especially anger and sadness). In addition, they've lost the ability to feel or express emotions freely. Eventually they fear all intense feelings, even good ones such as joy and happiness.
*Overdeveloped sense of responsibility.
ACoAs are hypersensitive to the needs of others.
Their self-esteem comes from how others view them. They have a compulsive need to be perfect.
*Guilt feelings.
When ACoAs stand up for themselves instead of giving in to others, they feel guilty. They usually sacrifice their own needs in an effort to be "responsible."
*Inability to relax/let go/have fun.
Having fun is stressful for ACoAs, especially when others are watching. The child inside is terrified; exercising all the control it can muster to be good enough just to survive. Under such rigid control, spontaneity suffers.
*Harsh, even fierce, self-criticism.
ACoAs have very low self-esteem, regardless how competent they may be in many areas.
*Denial. Whenever ACoAs feel threatened, their tendency toward denial intensifies.
*Difficulty with intimate relationships.
To ACoAs, intimacy equates to being out of control.
It requires love for self and expressing one's own needs. As a result, ACoAs frequently have difficulty with sexuality. They repeat unsuccessful relationship patterns.
*Living life as a victim.
ACoAs may be either aggressive or passive victims. They are often attracted to other "victims" in love, friendship and work relationships.
*Compulsive behavior.
ACoAs may work compulsively, eat compulsively, become addicted to
a relationship or behave in other compulsive ways. ACoAs may drink compulsively and become alcoholics themselves.
*Tendency to confuse love and pity.
Because they don't differentiate between these two emotions, ACoAs often "love" people they can pity and rescue.
*Fear of abandonment.
In order not to experience the pain of abandonment, ACoAs will do
anything to hold on to a relationship.
*Tendency to view issues in terms of black or white.
When they are under stress, the gray areas of life disappear and ACoAs see themselves facing an endless series of either/or alternatives.
*Tendency toward physical complaints.
ACoAs suffer higher rates of stress related illnesses (migraine headaches, ulcers, eczema, irritable bowel syndrome, etc.) than the general population.
Books:
Adult Children of Alcoholics: Expanded Edition. By Janet Woititz. (HCI Publishers, 1990.)
Healthy Parenting: An Empowering Guide for Adult Children. Edited by Janet Geringer Woititz, Ed.D. (Fireside Books, 1992.)
Websites:
http://www.adultchildren.org
http://www.nacoa.org/
Adult Protective Services, Services for Elderly
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh50.php
Alanon/Alanon Principles
Anger from parents when you try to bring it up, deflection off the topic
Animal Hoarding
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh53.php
Anxiety at sound of doorbell even as adults in our own homes:
Quote: |
Posted: Feb 1st, 2007
"My heart still leaps into my chest when the doorbell rings.
Is everything put away? Is there anything the person can see that might embarrass me? Is there dust or dirt somewhere that someone can see? Will they think I'm lazy?
I am NOT one to blame other people for my problems (I'd like to think I succeed in spite of them), but being the daughter of a hoarder and having an ex-husband who said I was lazy all the time just tag-teamed my self-esteem. I suppose I have set extremely high standards for myself and work almost TOO hard to attain them. I am scared, though, that if I let up I will become like my mom. " |
Quote: |
Feb 1st, 2007
"I am trying VERY hard to get over the panic of having people over. I look for opportunities to host things, volunteer my house for group activities (the kind of things that bounce around, taking turns hosting) because I feel like it's the OPPOSITE of everything my mother did when I was growing up. I only started doing this in the last couple years, though, since we bought a house and I feel like we have a reasonable amount of space to be comfortable. I have the 'never good enough' phobia about my house and here, I apply it not just to my housekeeping (which is horrible by normal standards... nothing like hoarding, but just plain messy) but the house generally." |
Quote: |
Posted: Feb 3rd, 2007
"Oh ya, doorbell dread, as I have dubbed it.
While I don't have any logical reason for it now, it is always there, no matter if my house is spotless, which only happens when we are expecting company. But if I am realistic about it, my house is never so bad I would die a thousand deaths if someone came over unexpectedly. If anything, it tends to get cluttered with things that need to be put away or straightened up.
I had extreme paranoia when I was growing up that someone important would find out about the house and take my sister and I away from my parents. In all reality, this probably wouldn't have happened. My dad could have taken us out of the environment if called on the carpet, and I had lots of relatives as well. But as a kid, these things don't always have logic. So that is probably the origin of my pit of your stomach gut reaction. So while mentally I know it is dumb, I can't get over the knee-jerk reaction." |
Being blamed for the condition of the house or keeping track of missing things as children
Being Made Fun Of At School as a child, member posts :
Quote: |
Feb 5th, 2007
"I had no tricks at all, because our washer and dryer had been dead for years and by about the 3rd or 4th grade or so, we had no running water, either. We went to a laundrymat periodically (and collected water there, too), but I don't think we went often enough. I was in constant terror the whole time we were there that someone who knew me would see me filling plastic bottles with water and loading them into the trunk of the car.
Yeah, it all really went to hell in the 5th grade. I am sure the smell was pretty bad. I was used to it, of course, but my classmates weren't and, kids being kids, they weren't exactly tactful about it. Two incidents really stand out in my mind. The first was the time a girl who sat behind me in a class got up and went to the teacher to ask (loudly enough for the whole class to hear) if she could please sit somewhere else because I smelled. The second was the time another girl made a big production in gym class (in front of half the grade) of presenting me with a bar of soap and some deodorant. They all got a good laugh out of that one. " |
Quote: |
Feb 6th, 2007
"People didn't make fun of me because of how I dressed so much but some people said we were "weird" and it was common knowledge that people didn't come into our house. Looking back I can chuckle with warped humor at all the rumors that went around about us when I was a kid. My favorite was the one that my mom was a witch and we kept the curtains closed so no one could see what she was doing in there. I used to think if only she WERE a witch so she could conjure a spell to get rid of all that junk and give us a nice house!! " |
Quote: |
Feb 2007
Subject: [COH] Setting Boundaries
-sigh- So I'm conflicted about this whole business of confronting the hoarder and TELLING a totally oblivious and insensitive person that they are hurting feelings. It seems like fitting a square peg in a round hole to interact with them in a NORMAL way, pretending that they might actually adjust their behavior (or express remorse). |
Quote: |
I can understand why you are conflicted. Setting boundaries isn't about confrontation. While I realize your mom won't want to hear it, and may even ignore the comment, but she will HEAR it.
The beauty about setting boundaries is that if, for example, you say, "mom, when you say _____ I feel _____" If you don't want to go the feelings route (and I admit, I am not a touchy feely person), then you could just say, "if you can't say something nice, constructive, or whatever, then please don't say anything." If she continues, then that is the hard part... then you need to figure out what you are really willing to do.
If you are on the phone, and this may be the easiest way to start this type of conversation, then you can say, "since you continue to keep saying negative things about (how I am raising my kids, how I keep house, about my husband or whatever), mom, I am hanging up", and then hang up. You can keep putting up boundaries. You don't need to justify them, and you don't need to get into a "confrontation" . If she raises the volume, again, you can say, Mom, if you can't speak to me in a normal voice, then I am hanging up." Etc.
I know it isn't easy, but really it is somewhat like dealing with small children. If you don't stop pulling your sister's hair you will get a time out...lol. If only you could give your mom a time out :) This kind of thing gets easier with practice and really can be used in life in general. If others are used to taking advantage of you or whatever, they will be unhappy that you put up boundaries. This shouldn't stop you, though. I did this with both my sister and my mom. With my mom it improved our relationship, with my sister is pretty much destroyed it, but in reality, our relationship was only about her anyway. This is a great topic for us all because when you grow up with hoarders, the only boundaries that are valid in the household are theirs. No one else is allowed to have them, so we don't learn to do this as children, and often don't even realize we can as adults. It isn't easy, at all, but it is worth it to try, no matter how small the victories are. |
Quote: |
August 9, 2007
member post
Hi All,
Recently, we completed a cleanout of my mother's 1 1/2 BR apartment - we threw out 20 cubic yards of garbage.
I want to publicly thank Donna (and to Cory from Stericlean in California) for helping me find a cleaning company in NYC.
Bio-Recovery was absolutely fantastic (877-246-2532, www.biorecovery.com) - very professional, finished on time, and under budget. I highly recommend them to this group.
I met with five different companies before selecting Bio-recovery. Below are my thoughts/opinions on these firms. Note I am listing these from best to worst, but in my opinion, there was a big gap between 1 and 2, and a huge gap between 2 and 3.
The range of estimates was $3300 (excluding dumpster) to $9200. In general, I was surprised by the variability in costs and the poor quality of the wording of the contracts (my wife is an attorney). All of the principals would have been onsite during the cleanup. I do believe that some of these firms were trying to take advantage of a very emotional situation
Feel free to contact me with any questions you may have.
1. Bio-Recovery (est $5500, actual cost $4800)
- Showed up within a few hours of my call to do a free estimate
- Met own deadline for hardcopy of estimate
- Contract looked out for interests of everyone involved; amenable to clarifying in writing some terms of contract
- No payment until end of job
- Incredibly efficient and professional - fantastic attitude made it easier on me and my mom
2. A Touch of Sass ($3300 excluding dumpster)
- Provided estimate as promised
- Fewest man hours required - with a boss who I believe could have executed well
- Least expensive option
- Could provide ongoing cleaning
- However, could not provide dumpster - I wanted the contractor to be responsible for everything end-to-end
*******
3. ServPro ($~9K)
- Provided estimate as promised on time
- Responsive to questions
- By far - largest number of man hours required and most expensive
- Had said it was their slow time of year and could start immediately
- I believe they were padding the bill with underutilized people (8
men the first day?!?)
4. Spring Cleaning (~$6500)
- Provided estimate as promised
- Assertive about winning business (returned calls promptly, etc)
- Poorly worded contract - but was willing to rework into something that made sense
- Ability to provide ongoing cleaning
- Wanted 100% payment up front - no flexibility vis a vis credit card, escrow, etc
5. Disaster Masters (~$8K plus the estimate fee)
- Charged $250 just to do an estimate
- Missed four of their own deadlines for preparing the bid causing my mom a great deal of anxiety
- Unresponsive to eMails and voice mails
- Changed timing estimate from three - four days to two - three days without explanation - why can you do this faster? Impression was they were going to understaff the job
- Did not provide detailed breakdown of manhours, etc
- Called for a deposit to be made by me into a Bank of America account - i.,e. find a B of A and deposit a check into his account
- Methodical approach to sorting salvage, donatable, and trash |
Quote: |
If a gift giver gives you a gift FREELY, then it belongs to you and only you. You can do with it whatever you want! It's yours; you own it now. It's now your property! But on the other hand, if the gift giver gives you a gift with STRINGS attached, then they really didn't give you a gift. You know your gift has strings attached if the gift giver:
*expects you to keep it forever
*expects to see you enjoying, using, or displaying their gift
*asks, "Where is such and such?"
*asks, "Why don't I ever see you using such and such?"
*Instead of a gift, they've given you fear, guilt, and a BURDEN that you must keep their gift, carry it around, and display it. Many fear they must hang onto gifts given to them. Even if never used. Even if they don't like it. Even if it doesn't fit their needs. Fearing by giving it away they will betray the gift giver. Oh the POWER they have over you. |
Glass Castle, The, book
http://astore.amazon.com/childrenofhoa-20/detail/074324754X/103-2867372-5541428
Going on "acquisition trips" (like craft fairs, Goodwill) rather than kid-friendly activities w/parent
Guilt, member post (See also: COHUGET):
| Quote: |
From a member:
"I collected some of the observations I've made about guilt over the years and condensed them...and at the end is what I called a printable, wallet-sized list.
First, if your parent is a typical emotion-based hoarder (not just an ADHD mess maven), and you are a typical COH, you will ALWAYS carry the potential for feeling guilty. That's because just as the hoarder never has enough stuff, there's never enough anybody can do for him or her.
S/he feels entitled to an infinite amount of your attention, time, energy, labor, and resources. There's some kind of advanced calculus formula for this sort of thing in exploding matter, but the point
for us is that if you give them X, they will always expect X + 1, with that turning into the new X.
Consequently, if you are not a socio/psychopath without a conscience and no regard for others, you will always feel deficient. But you may be looking at the wrong side of the equation.
It's the hoarder's expectations that are infinite, and nobody on earth can ever meet them. Since it's a normal human thing to feel bad if we do not fulfill our parent's expectations, it's almost inevitable to get trapped between the 'normal' child reaction and the definitely abnormal parental expectation.
Plus, if you're still listening to outsiders' opinions, based on more normal family reactions and not at all on the hoarder family dynamics, your guilt tends to grow and grow. Try to forget these opinions unless they come from a professional counselor or psychiatrist who is treating you. All they do is complicate things and make it even harder to determine what's reasonable to do for the hoarder and what's unreasonable.
(This applies to both positive and negative opinions, by the way...somebody saying, "you're doing too much" is just as much clutter as somebody saying "you're not doing enough". If you can't tell and need an honest, objective opinion, get one from your own counselor or psychiatrist.)
Remember, in most COH situations, the very fact that you feel guilt pretty much means you don't have anything to feel guilty about. Feeling guilt means you have a functioning feeling system...that you are not a narcissist focused on your needs alone...that you are not a socio/psychopath or borderline.
This is not to say that it's ok to delude yourself or to provide an excuse for our own unreasonable actions. The point is that there is a line somewhere between the hoarder's abusing you and you abusing the hoarder, and it's up to you to determine what it is, because in the hoarder's mind that line is drawn
all the way towards him or her.
(As you try to determine this line, bump it a little towards the hoarder, just to compensate for the fact that humans are never objective about themselves...this will help you know that your line really is reasonable, and even a little more than reasonable.)
It might help to apply the golden rule or mentally reverse the situation or think of an analogy in a totally different situation. As I explained to my youngest sister during one discussion about what was reasonable for our mom to expect, and what wasn't...it's like being a bridesmaid. You don't mind paying for the dress, or taking several paid vacation days. You don't really mind paying for a present. You mind a little more paying for the hotel room. and a little more than that the extra two days you have to take off because of the strange schedule. But when the bride expects you to take another two unpaid days off, just so you can fly on the airline in which she owns stock, that is too much."
Summary for the wallet card:
If the hoarder never feels s/he has enough stuff,
s/he will never feel you have done enough.
Don't go by what s/he thinks is reasonable, because it never is.
Don't go by outside opinions, unless offered by a professional who is treating YOU.
There is a line somewhere; requests or expectations below that line are acceptable, and above that line, unacceptable.
That line may change and shift somewhat with time,
but it's still there. |
Growing Up Stories Sent In To Website anonymously
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh37.php
Habituation: The process of learning to tolerate an anxiety-producing situation through exposure.
Having hoarding tendencies too but trying to fight them
Having an "Elephant in the livingroom."
Having Children Of Our Own Doubts, member posts :
Quote: |
11/15/07
In spite of it all, I turned out very well adjusted. BUT I don't want to risk projecting my neuroses and issues on a child - I don't feel qualified to have children, and thankfully never had the ticking biological clock effect that EVERYONE insisted I would ("You'll change your mind, you'll want kids someday" Not true!) |
Quote: |
11/13/07
Then, the latest hit me yesterday: I've always had this feeling like I've ALREADY been a parent, so the thought of becoming one is an exhausting one. I'd always thought that this feeling of deja vu came
from parenting my mom (who, in contrast to many stories I've read on this site, hasn't really needed much parenting, actually). Yesterday, it dawned on me: It's been the parenting of myself that's been exhausting me! |
Quote: |
Member Post:
11/2007
See the information below (I had to deal with this once, too). When you can get a word in edgewise, ask for the address of their agency. When you get it, write a quick letter and send it by registered mail, with tracking. This letter should state they do not have permission to call you and must continue all communication in writing. As it says in point five below, they legally must stop calling you if you ask them to stop in writing. It doesn't stop the underlying problem, but it stops the harassing phone calls....
Good luck!
FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT
This Act governs the practices of collection agencies in their attempts to collect debts. Here is a summary list of some of the practices which are regulated:
(1) Debt collectors must provide written notices of the amount of the debt and name of the creditor within 5 days of the original communication.
(2) They must notify the debtor that he has the right to dispute the debt within 30 days or it is assumed to be valid.
(3) They must provide a copy of a judgment if there is one and the name and address of the original creditor.
(4) Each communication must contain the notice that any information obtained will be used for collection
purposes.
(5) They must cease communication if asked to do so in writing.
The debt collector cannot:
- communicate at any unusual time or place without permission from the creditor;
- contact the debtor if he is represented by an attorney and can contact the attorney;
- contact the debtor at his/her place of employment if the employer prohibits it;
- state to any third person that the debtor owes a debt;
- communicate by postcard;
- use any language or symbol on the outside of an envelope which indicates that the debt is owed, or
- harass the debtor. |
How To Help A Hoarder See They Have a Disorder/Need Help:
How To Talk About It-Ideas on things to show your hoarding loved one
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh33.php
Advice from family members
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh12.php
In-Laws of Hoarders (search terms suggested: MIL, FIL)
In-Laws (yours) Finding Out About The Hoarding
Information To Gather On Our Parents To Have On-Hand
From members of the Group: (since this stuff takes a while to find...)
Quote: |
WILLS/POWER OF ATTORNEY
Copy of living will (ditto)
Power of Attorney (ditto)
Lawyers contact information
PERSONAL DATA
Social Security number
Family addresses you don't have
INSURANCE
Health insurance policy number
Long term care insurance policy
MEDICAL
Meds that they are on, or supposed to be on
Health insurance policy number (repeat)
Physician's contact information
Medical history
Medications prescribed
BANKING
Banking info or can you get that just by having soc etc?
Copy of credit cards-front/back
HOUSE
Deed to the house - My moms was on a shelf in her closet. It was easy to find since all her clothes were rotting in a big pile on the floor.
AUTOMOBILE
Drivers license # or copy, etc.
Car titles
Car insurance policy
FUNERAL ARRANGEMENTS
Any pre-paid funeral information |
Quote: |
From a member:
"The Senior Organizer", the one I bought for a fellow COH was in paperback form. You have to scroll down a little bit to see the cover.*I am in no way endorsing this product or company, just letting you all know that it's out there. |
-------------------------------
Quote: |
From a member:
Just want to add a few things and elaborate on others. I know you listed "Banking Info," but it goes beyond knowing where your parents currently do their banking. Try to find out where else they may have accounts. (I've been my mother's legal guardian for 6 months, and I just now found out that she has another passbook savings account, at a different bank, with $6,000 in it; the account was inactive and was close to being turned over to the government. It was sort of a fluke that I found out about it.)
Also try to find out where their 401K plans and/or retirement/pension plans are administered, and what the account numbers are for those. In addition, you'll want to know the life insurance policy numbers and amounts. (Even if you don't need them because your parent is still living, they are considered an asset if they have cash value and you'll need to include them in things like reports to the court if you file for guardianship, financial aid, etc.)
You really need to know at which banks your parents have safe deposit boxes, and where the keys to those boxes are. (People do forget that they have safe deposit boxes when they change banks.) I had to pay $75 per box to have the locks drilled on my mom's boxes because we had no idea where to find the keys. (Banks don't like to drill locks, either; mine gave me a hard time.)
You should also know who the beneficiaries are on your parents' various policies. This is a sore point with me because my mom made my brother the beneficiary on all her policies and left me (and her only grandchild) out in the cold. I had no idea about this till after I became her guardian. It can't be modified now because it's outside the scope of what a guardian can do without the permission of the court. Your parents may not want to tell you who their beneficiaries are, but it should be listed on the policies,
so if you have copies of those then you'll be able to determine this yourself.
You may also want to know what your parents' income is. I needed to know that to determine what services my mom qualified for, and I had no idea. She's retired, and I knew she received Social Security, but I didn't know the amount or whether she had a pension or any "widow's" income from my dad, or anything else. I was totally in the dark. (If you can get a copy of last year's tax return, that info should be listed.)
One more thing: along with car title and driver's license info, you'll want a copy of their registration.- |
Quote: |
Anyone can ask me what I went through. I would try now to make sure your parents have a will. Even YOU should have a will because it is a big fat pain to go through probate. I did NOT get a lawyer and saved myself a ton of money. But it was only me and my brother and nothing to fight over because everything was ruined from the squalor. It wasn't that difficult but took a while. I know it is not fun to think about but it is so important to HAVE A WILL!!
Tracy |
Quote: |
State laws vary, but in both Illinois and California (Dad's in IL and I'm in CA) you need not only a will but also a trust to avoid probate. (I also have a will and trust, and I'm only 36.) It's more expensive up front, but totally worth it. It still takes time and money to resolve the estate, but avoiding probate keeps it out of the public record. Unless there is estate planning for investments and properties and stuff, trusts and wills are pretty boilerplate and can be done inexpensively with companies like "We the People".
During highschool, I worked for attorneys in the town where Dad lives. When Mom was dying and we were doing the cleanup, I got a referral from my former employers to an excellent local trust attorney. IL is a community property state, so when Mom died everything automatically passed to Dad. Thank goodness Mom *insisted* that Dad go to the trust attorney IMMEDIATELY after she died, so my sister and I set an appointment a few days after the funeral and got the ball rolling.
I talked to Dad a couple weeks ago, and the attorney hadn't called him to set the follow up/sign the paperwork meeting yet...almost a month after the initial appointment. Even though I reminded Dad that nothing was official until he signed the will and trust, he was content to sit and wait for them to call him. So of course I stealthed a call to the attorney's assistant, which prompted an appointment yesterday to review and sign the final paperwork. (Turns out the attorney thought his assistant had already set the appointment, so I didn't have to yell at anyone )
We did have to finagle Dad a bit to get this done. Our approach was, "Dad, you don't want the government deciding who gets what when you die. You want to be in control of that." Might not work for everyone, but certainly worth a try.
If anyone is interested, I could dig up some websites that might be helpful - just let me know.-infinitehope |
Routines, difficulty establishing them.
Support Group for COH following the FLY Lady program:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/coh32.php
Reporting a Parent to Authorities
Scared of turning into a Hoarder too, member posts. Is It Genectic?
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Posted: Feb 5th, 2007
I am definitely afraid of that. I'd be surprised to find many COH who aren't.
I'm afraid of being alone. Not so much because of loneliness (I already feel lonely much of the time anyway), but mostly because I worry that without someone in my life, I would stop caring about keeping things clean. As long as my mother shared living space with another adult, as far as I know, she was fine.
It was only later in her life that things got out of hand. I worry that, without someone else's expectations defining the housekeeping, I would never throw mail or magazines away (because you never know when you might need it), never get rid of clothes (because they could still be used for something even if it's not wearing), never throw boxes or packaging away (because I might have to return it or at least it would be nice to have if I move), never throw receipts away (because you never know when you might have to dispute a charge or something), and so on.
My mother always said "you never know" about so many different things. "Make sure you have plenty of ________, because you never know...." When those words involuntarily come out of my mouth, it's a big shock and I have to pause and assess the situation. I can feel it, deep down inside me sometimes, the pull to keep whatever the item is. And that scares the hell out of me. I can count zero reasons to keep that old pair of shoes that are absolutely unwearable and unfixable and therefore completely useless to any human, but... it isn't easy to let them go. So I close my eyes, take a deep breath, trash them, walk away quickly, and remind myself that it isn't inevitable that I will end up living in a virtual landfill. |
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Posted: Feb 6th, 2007
I think I understand when you say " I can feel it, deep down inside me sometimes, the pull to keep whatever the item is."
I am also terrified of becoming a horder. On most days I think that it's not really possible for me to become a horder, but then doubt creeps in and I start wondering. When do you know if it's happening etc...This is a common worry I hear from people that have mental illness in their family. I guess there is no guarantees for anything, but as long as you keep checking in with yourself, you might be okay.
I often feel sentimental about photographs and letters. I have a hat-box that I keep letters and photos in. Sometimes I wonder if that even is too much. Maybe it's just being hyper-vigilant...I guess most non-hoarders have photo albums and such.
In the past I have had the tendency to tip to the opposite side, overcompensate and have minimal amount of stuff because I dreaded the chaos. But lately I give myself the premission to just leave a pair of socks out or leave a plate in the sink because I realize it's a different kind of mess. It's not coming from an internal chaos,and it could be put away. There is definetely a difference, but sometimes I need to okay it with myself. |
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Posted: Feb 9th, 2007
Yes. I'm very aware and fearful that I'm going to become a hoarder. I'm afraid that something is going to "click" in my brain and suddenly leave me unaware. I'm also afraid about "turning into" my mother. There are many traits she has that I do not admire, and I am afraid of becoming obese like her too.
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Feb 20th, 2007
I think you're right about us thinking about all these items differently from the way most people do. The average person certainly does have photo albums, I'm sure, and probably most people collect something or another. Now, if I felt the desire to collect something, it would be a big red flag and I'd probably freak out about it. But every day, "normal" people are out there collecting all sorts of stuff and it's not a problem. I wonder if people at risk for hoarding even can collect in a non-hoarding way. (I certainly don't plan to test that one on myself.) But, yeah, I think when we see anything at all in ourselves that vaguely resembles our parents' behavior, we automatically go to "OMG, I'm turning into my mother!" Ironically, that anxiety may make us more likely to seek the solace of "stuff" right? |
Selling A Hoarded House
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I'm now in the process of selling my mom's home for her. (I'm her legal guardian.) Her house was condemned as "unfit for human habitation." The heat doesn't work, and neither does the hot water. The plumbing needs to be replaced as well. There's flood damage also.
The market value of this house (and land) should have been somewhere around $xxx,000 to $xxx,000 if it was in good condition. But it's starting to sound like she may only get about $xxx,000 for it<$200k less than market>. (One Realtor said that the town almost certainly won't grant a "certificate of continued occupancy," whatever that is.)
The shame of it is that she's now in an assisted living facility. The money from the sale of the house will support her for only two years (room and board there now is over $5,100 a month). If she and my adult brother (who lived with my parents all his life) had taken care of the house, not allowed it to fall into filth and disrepair, the sale of the house would have supported her for maybe six years, by the end of which her mental faculties would probably have deteriorated to the point that it wouldn't have been so bad to move her into a nursing home. (Medicaid will pay for a nursing home but not for assisted living. Unfortunately, most people decline quickly in nursing homes.)
I'm posting this to help make others aware of the depreciation of a house that's been neglected, as well as the high cost of assisted living care. |
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Alternate Realities in childhood
Anxiety at sound of doorbell, not comfortable having people in our homes as adults-feel "judged/not perfect enough"
Christmas trees sticking around forever, some until next season or in Cmas tree graveyard in backyard
Having fleas and fruitflies in childhood home
Being made fun of at school
Traits of ACO-alcoholics
Have OCD in other forms
Have ADD
Resentment and worry about being responsible for cleaning it up-financially and EMOTIONALLY.
Scared of turning into parent: periodically throw things out or are minimilists, super organized to prove "not like parent"
Socially isolate selves or getting there |
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Have ADD
Are nurses or caregivers of some kind
Hoard angels and dolls
History of depression
Don't have many close friends
Dug through our trash when we were children and picked things out
Have high education levels, many went to Ivy-league schools
Will get around to things SOMEday. Have "fantasy thinking"
Repetitive speach-no short stories. Conversations often turned and focused on them.
Hypochondria or one-upping illnesses so they are "sicker one"
Are artistic or creatively inclined
Perfectionists
Don't like to take medicines choose "natural remedies"
Love Readers Digest
Television very important to them-talk about like "real people/family" (QVC hosts too)
Recording television.
Cranking up volume on TV so they won't miss a word
Did NOT want the wrapping paper ripped, had to save bows
Hoard in their cars, trunks
They got worse when we left home or their spouse died
Get angry when you bring it up. Blame others for situation. |
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My definition, Wonderful Stranger=
A non family member of a Hoarder whose opinions, advice and suggestions are valued above the family. WS's can have very limited contact with the Hoarder, but they way they are described by Hoarder they sound like close, personal, loving friends. WS's are not allowed to see the ugly side of the Hoarding life, only what the Hoarder chooses to present to them and have them believe. WS's can =bank tellers, grocery store clerks, lunch ladies who are never invited in and couldn't tell you Hoarder's favorite color or where Hoarder grew up, school chums from 60 years ago that have never even sent a Cmas card, etc. |
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Quote: My definition of a wonderful stranger:
A person, usually of the opposite sex, often works in sales, who flatters or otherwise gives attention in a way that makes the hoarder think the wonderful stranger is the nicest, most decent person in the world. They are considered to have the best advice (that trumps anything that family would say), and they are the only person who really gets the hoarder, according to the hoarder. This is typically all in the hoarders head, and based purely on surface conversation.
They frequently have been known less than a year (if not less than a week). Once they are known better, they cease to be wonderful strangers and frequently there is a rift. Example: My mother decided one year that my brother and I should have the exact same plaid shirt from the Gap, because a nice young man from a house-painting company that made a sales call had the same shirt and he was cute. I did not like the shirt and neither did my brother. Personal banker is another one I can think of that my mother tells all about her personal life. Does not seem to get that this person (and other wonderful strangers) are trying to make money off of her, which is why they listen and smile. In fact, she may be on to this fact, but does not want to admit it to herself. |
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The Wonderful Strangers are the ones who know nothing about the hoarder's behavior in his/her own home, know nothing about the physical environment the hoarder has forced on family members, and know nothing about the hoarder's problems in close family relationships. In short, the Wonderful Stranger knows nothing at all, but the hoarder recognizes that this lack of knowledge gives the WS a very special perspective, unbiased and unprejudiced. The WS is like a plane hovering high in the sky, not close enough to see any details, so every house and car on the ground look about the same. The WS is a big comfort to hoarders, who sometimes wish that everyone was so far away and distant that they couldn't see the mess, couldn't see how troubled the hoarder really is. The thoughts and opinions of close family members can never compete with those of a WS... the WS can be trusted much more than the close family members (who are too obsessed with and distracted by the hoarding problem to have any valid ideas) |
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| "WS's are not allowed to see the ugly side of the Hoarding life, only what the Hoarder chooses to present to them and have them believe. |
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I'd change "ugly side of the Hoarding life" to something like 'a balanced view of, or real story behind, the hoarder's life, living conditions or family relationships' because the problem isn't just seeing the hoard itself, it's that the hoarder turns these wonderful strangers into enablers who support the hoarder in his/her misinterpretation of reality. Otherwise, great job!
I'd also put in that the problem may be worst with the ones who get paid--accountants, lawyers, insurance agents--which can create amazingly difficult situations, both because of the confidential nature of that kind of transaction, and the real-world implications of the hoarder getting advice that is either inept or based solely on the distorted reality the hoarder presents. |
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I agree. "Wonderful Strangers" can be benign, but they can also be predatory. I am tired of the salesperson at the flower shop who obviously has endeared themselves to my MIL so she is spending hundreds on fresh flowers each month because she wants them around. Never mind that she cannot even come close to affording them. I am tired of the insurance agent who has called us twice in the last 24 hours feigning a service mentality when in reality he hasn't been in touch for eons and only now sees an opportunity to get some more of her business. I'm sure she "loves" him. She was crushed when she learned her auto insurance agency had been purchased by another company and the agents were all let go. She couldn't believe the agent never contacted her because "she loves me." Riiiiiiight.
And I'm REALLY tired of predatory telemarketers who continue to get my MIL to buy hundreds of bucks of stuff she doesn't need (who the heck needs thirty 7-year lightbulbs for $200-plus in a two room apartment?). I'm sure the telemarketers put on their best friendly chatty tone with her. What kills me is she won't answer the phone when we call, by and large, but she is obviously taking these telemarketing calls. WSs either don't know and interact with the hoarder, or know and have to hide it in order to make money off of the hoarder. If a WS ever becomes more than just a business relationship, they may get to know what is really going on, confront the hoarder, and get the boot from the hoarder's life. That has happened to my MIL on several occasions. |
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My mom's Wonderful Strangers are mostly bus drivers, a few baristas, Safeway clerks and book and record store owners--a mostly male captive audience with whom she gets to chat in short installments. Of the ones I've met, they do seem like good, kind, decent people. People who are patient with her monologues and her obsessions with cats and music and too polite to put her off. (One of these people is a friend of my brother's and he said to her "Well, Mom may be crazy, but she hides it pretty well." Response: silence and a shake of the head. "Maybe a little?" "Nope." "Can she hide it at all?" "Nope, she's definitely crazy.") I would not call any of these people "friends". Yet she gushes about them in way I've never heard her do with her own family. Some of them really are lonely and appreciate the attention Mom gives them. If you have a "theme", such as "cats" or "trains" or "The Beatles", she will buy you things relating to that theme. Yet she cannot fathom what members of her own family might like as gifts (because we are assertive enough to say when we don't like something, which makes us ungrateful).
She is prepared to sell her house to one of these people, without checking in with her family, and I suspect he may be taking advantage of her. She has given my phone number to one of these people, whom she had just met, because he said he was looking for a girlfriend. (This is the same mother who was convinced we would be axe-murdered at summer camp or snatched by a stranger with candy off the street.) So, to sum up: Nice, polite people who haven't yet crossed her mental, emotional or physical boundaries, and who may know she's a little "off" but don't know just how squalid her living conditions are. People who may believe all the negative things she says about her family, and whose advice she trusts without question. Helpful if handsome and male, though there is no romantic fantasy involved. Her family should be prepared to hear the entire life story of various WS's, tales about their children and pets, career highlights, etc. while at the same time the hoarder will not be able to remember the family member's favorite color, names of best friends, college major, etc. |
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A Wonderful Stranger is a person who needs help. The hoarder can help him/her and seem like a martyr, spending all her free time on the w.s., not on herself. Little does the w.s. know that he/she is being used as an excuse for the squalor to increase due to neglect. The w.s. will never see the home and and is often disabled or house-bound. It helps if the w.s. has an emotional problem and feels bad about themselves and would never guess that the hoarder has bigger problems. |
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For my mom, a wonderful stranger is someone who knows her only superficially, but they validate her self-worth. I don't know how many times I heard of the people at the nursing care facility, "They JUST LOVE me here." The opinions of wonderful strangers are more highly valued than those of real authorities, if it is something my mom would prefer to hear. i.e. "The nurse said I don't have to use my walker all the time, as long as I'm careful," when the physical therapist has said *always* use the walker.
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This is what drove me nuts about my mother. God forbid if some stranger who doesn't even know you says something nice. But nevermind your family all stressed out about the way you live because we love you and want better for you. We are just STRESSING YOU OUT. I felt like saying to my Mom several times GET A GRIP WOMAN, normal people don't live this way and if these people knew how you lived they would lose respect for you. ARG! |
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