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 Go to ideas on opening up a dialogue Go to How & When to help from various sources
A post from the support group:
Messiness & Hoarding from a
daughter of a
father that hoards, with suggestions on
how to help:
(posted here with the permission of Sandra Felton, group owner):
Knowing what I've learned from this group and other resources, here's what I would do in
your situation:
- I would not throw anything away unless it's rotten food or something that will spoil
- I would emphasize to your mother over and over that you are throwing NOTHING
away without her permission; keep in mind at all times that you wouldn't want people
giving away your stuff without asking, and that calling it 'junk' or the equivalent may
make her defensive. The point of this is to get her trust so that when you go
through the things with her, she'll feel you're on HER side.
- Take before photos -- nothing helps momentum when spirits start to flag than looking
at the progress you've/she's made.
- I'd sort and organize and put everything that I'd *LIKE* to get rid of into boxes and
bins and bags, and store them, even if it means renting a storage unit. I would *not*
take them into my own home (could be threatening for her to think you've 'taken'
things; also, sets a horrible precedent of letting her problem lapse over into your life
more than it already does. If you can't afford a storage unit, it may be that you can
stack the boxes such that the junk takes up less space that way anyhow.
- While you're packing, try to keep like things together (see below)
- While she's laid up will be the PERFECT time to go through the boxes with her. Be
prepared -- you can think about this as you pack things -- with suggestions for places you can get rid of things that aren't just trash, that will make her feel good. If there's
any charity or church or neighbors or relatives who could use things, don't hesitate.
With my parents, "I'll bet Alice could use these" worked much better than "these can
go to the Goodwill"
- When possible, and if you are sure you can get away with it, say you'll give things a
good home and then take them to your place and get rid of them as you see fit.
- Obviously, you will have to actually KEEP enough of it so that she doesn't clue in. Or
here's a BRILLIANT scheme -- my mother had a zillion trillion baskets: we told her that
my sister saves baskets and fills them with goodies and gives them as presents, so we
got permission to send ALL baskets to my sisters house, and I'll bet about 1/4th of
them actually made it to her house (the others went to Goodwill and she'll never know
because my sister has given them away as gifts, right?
- Do anything you can to gently persuade her that this is a problem, not just 'clutter' or
a need to 'get organized'. If there's a doctor or minister or friend who she trusts, who
can help, that's great -- if your mother is like my father, she won't think that her kids
could know ANYTHING.
- Go through the old posts here to see the tricks people here are using on their OWN
hoarding problems -- take photographs of things and keep the photos in neat albums
rather than keeping the things themselves;
-list things in a journal; help her to think about how good someone who can't afford
-new things will feel if they can buy her still-good castoffs affordably at the Goodwill and
how that is much better than having them unused for years at her place; and since
you (as much as possible) kept like things together you should be able to point out
to her that she has 11 turkey basters and can't possible use more than 1 at a time (so
she won't say "but I might NEED that!");
-remind her that she does need to get rid of things, and that if it takes a week for the
first box you'll never finish -- you are donating your time and you're doing it
because you love her and you respect that these are her things, not your
things, but she needs to respect that dealing with this is eating up YOUR life;
-if you're willing to put on a garage sale then do that (we were not willing to do that).
-If you have a connection to any charitable group, see if they collect used items, see if
they're planning a rummage sale, tell them you can pretty much supply half a
rummage sale all by yourself if they WILL have one -- we got rid of LOTS of stuff that
way (and if nobody is having a rummage sale, is your town big enough that you could
invent a non-existent rummage sale, and give things to Goodwill or take them to the
dump?)
-Be alert for categories of things that she simply CANNOT handle getting rid
of -- with my father, it was shoes and anything made of cloth. You may have to
resign yourself to saving all of certain categories for the moment, say, a couple of
hundred towels -- but it's better to keep the momentum going and get rid of
things that are easier for her. On the other hand, if you find that there are categories
of things that are easier for her to get rid of, ask whether she'll give you permission to
throw all of that type of thing away
Remember that getting rid of any tiny little thing may make her just off-the-
graph anxious -- try to make sure she's got her favorite tea or cookies or whatever,
music, whatever she finds relaxing
Now, if you can do all of that without going nutso bonkers crazy, you are a saint! Do you
have siblings who can help? We found that my sister could handle my father's <anxiety>
better than I could, and I could handle my mother's (own different brand of) <anxiety>
better than my sister could -- that helped a lot.
That was all written assuming that if you can box things up and make the house presentable
enough, she can stay there, with medical staff if necessary.
I didn't know all this when I started, and we alienated our father by calling his hoard
'junk'. Also, even though we swore blind that we wouldn't throw things away, I'm afraid we
did, because we were very sure that, given the uncountable number of grocery bags full of
milk cartons, they wouldn't know how many there were, and we got rid of 2/3 of them
without asking. We respected that these were THEIR milk cartons, but defined milk cartons
as 'garbage' anyway. Also, we got into areas of the house that hadn't seen the light of day
for 35 years, and were sure that we could get rid of rusty old fans and things without them
remembering they owned them.
-mef
Send in your suggestion
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A post from a support group,
(Mates of Messies) from a
spouse of a compulsive
hoarder, with suggestions on
how to help. (posted with permission):
My suggestions for talking with a hoarder:
1) Pick a small, doable project. Instead of getting your hoarder/messie to
empty all the junk from one room, focus on one part of it. For example, talk
about the laundry all over the bedroom and leave the boxes of books,
newspapers, magazines, broken electronics, etc., for another day.
2) Time it right. Just had a big fight about the laundry? Not the right time to
talk about it. Instead, try for a time when your hoarder/messie is feeling really
good about him/herself -- just had a success at work, made a delicious dinner
or whatever it is.
3) Make your case calmly and rationally. Focus on what good will come
from getting the project done. Example, "Honey, won't it be nice to know
exactly where your favorite T-shirt is?" (Leave the fact that the shirt is a high
school leftover for another time.)
4) Set goals together. While for you sorting the laundry may be a ten minute
job, a hoarder/messie needs more time to make decisions and to them just
distinguishing between dark and light laundry may be hard. Take this into
consideration when making goals but also don't let the messie/hoarder set the
entire timeline.
5) If you have little kids and can afford it, get a babysitter or a friend to
watch them while you and your significant other work on the project.
6) Write it all down. I can't emphasize this enough. It seems nit-picky but is
necessary. Have a timeline in writing, get your messie to sign and date it.
Follow through with any consequences. Using the laundry example again, if
the laundry isn't sorted, washed and put away by X date, it will be sent to
Goodwill. If you don't follow through, all your other work is in vain.
7) Celebrate a job well done! Sure, it seems like doing the laundry isn't
all that big a deal. Some of us do it every day without even thinking about it.
But for a messie/hoarder, these small everyday tasks are major projects that
require a lot of mental energy.
Good luck to everyone!
Send in your suggestion
A letter written to a
mother who
compulsively saves,
after author read Chapter 23 on
Compulsive Hoarding, February 2006.<edits
8/07>
Dear Mom,
Here's what I used to think:
"My mom is so messy! Why can't she keep a nice house like "normal moms", like my friends have?
Why does it have to be a "pig sty" all the time? I just don't understand why she can't just be neat and
tidy like other people!"
What I know now:
You're Not Lazy
Each thing is unique to you and can't be replaced. You can't just "put it away" because you really
have to figure out where you mean for it to go. For example, if you look at a cookbook and there is
an interruption, it can't be put back as it's in a new category such as "actively being read", so it
goes to the back of the couch or somewhere close by so you can see it and not forget it.
Then, you may look up a word in a dictionary but can't put it back on a shelf because you might think
you'll forget the word. This could go on with many different kinds of books/magazine
articles/recipes, whatever, until they all have a new position in the room. And that position has a
meaning to you. It's a way of organizing that looks like chaos to other people.
Because you may think this way about EVERYthing, not just books and magazines, the decision
making process on where to put things is overwhelming. When you bring home new things,
sometimes it's easier to just "plop it down" than deal with the draining process of what category it
should go in right now.
"Every, single time I spend my coveted time off clearing paths, becoming exhausted from the
effort of trying to make my mom's living environment nice, getting optimistic she will have a
nice place to live now, have friends over....she fills it up again. Every time. She must think I
have nothing better to do with my time then to spend my life cleaning up the clutter she
creates".
Churning Is Not Just For Butter Anymore
When you organize things like you do, and you keep acquiring new things, space just runs out
which leads to piles. When you try to sort a pile, you might not be sure what to do with something
that moment (because it's so mentally taxing) and think "I'll set it here for now", and you put it
somewhere nearby.
Every time you pick up something and examine it, you may feel like its value increases. Therefore, it
may get a new category to you so you put it on another pile or reposition it in the old pile and
where you put it has significance to you. As a result, nothing really went anywhere, it just took a
little trip. Over <two> million other people in the U.S. do this too, they call this moving around of
things "churning". You aren't alone.
When this goes on over time, the piles you've made merge into a large pile. So you may have me
do it for you, but the end result is still the same.
"What is wrong with my mom?! She has really important stuff in piles with useless things!
Doesn't she have enough sense to know that mail from the bank shouldn't be in the middle of
a pile of a pinecones, empty plastic bags and old newspapers?"
Cash & Trash-Pile Anatomy
Trying to decide how to organize <I know decision-making is difficult for you> or throw away based
on the value of a certain thing is hard because everything is equally important to you. That is why
you may have things other people consider "trash" in piles with important paperwork, mail, etc.
Because you have a lot of things equally important to you in the same pile, EVERYthing has to be
examined closely. You may even have cash mixed in with what other people consider "trash." It's
not that you don't recognize the value of cold hard cash, it's just that it's just as important to you as
the other stuff in the pile.
The File Clerk Was Fired
You might think that if you file something and it is out of sight, you might forget it. You like to see
everything and feel that filing just hides it. You might not have much confidence in your memory.
One lady said that even though her papers were given an elaborate filing system, she felt like they
were lost to her, even though she could locate them now.
You like to remember where everything IS where the rest of us only have to remember the system.
<i.e.-cash in a wallet, books on the shelf, etc.>
"Why does she have to keep the old junky cars that are no good from people who have died?
Why is she saving those thousands of garbage ties my grandfather had?"
A Sentimental Journey
You may save things for sentimental reasons. Like everyone else, they might be a meaningful
reminder of past events. However to you, a lot of 'unique' things have this kind of significance and
they may feel like an extension of yourself or other people...especially those deceased. Getting rid
of some things might be like the loss of part of yourself or a close friend.
"Why does she get so mad at me when I'm just trying to help clean? Other parents would
love that their kids are cleaning for them but my mom just gets mad at me. I must be pretty
bad if I get yelled at just trying to be good. Why can't she say "thanks" or "Good job!"?
MISPLACED THINGS/DISPLACED ANGER
Some <other people that save like this> say they feel violated when other people touch or move
their things...like they lose their importance if other people touch them. Some say it's like their
things become contaminated if touched and they can go into a rage, like they are trying to defend
the value of the "things". You like to have control over them. <they are important to you. They
may represent what you WANT your life to be like-your hopes and dreams.> You may feel that your
"things" are the only thing you DO have control over in your life and maybe you don't want to lose
that one thing you feel confidant about.
Dare I Say Womb?
You might save things because it makes you comfortable having them around you. One hoarder
wrote that "I just want to go home when I'm out and just have my things around me because it's
comforting".
Never Have To Say Goodbye
You might not want to get rid of things because you don't want to lose something that might be
needed someday by you or others. Like with old newspapers, you don't really care about the paper
itself, but the information in there. <you might feel like it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to know the
information in there.>With junk mail it may be a lost opportunity. Used envelopes with notes on
them might represent a part of your life or a day you don't want to forget. If you save these things,
you avoid losing the information (e.g.-newspapers),forgetting what happened that
day(e.g.-envelopes with notes with what you did that day) as you don't want that those things lost
to you forever.
When you buy things that other people might think are frivolous, to you it may mean you don't want
that good bargain to be lost to you forever that you can't get back. <You might be saving something
for the perfect recipient who will value the item as much as you do.>
Deciding What Decision The Decision Is In
Making the decision about what to do with your things is the hard part. There have been <brain
imaging> done that show different patterns in the area that deals with focus, attention and
decision- making in those that hoard. Putting things in a pile to sort later avoids the discomfort of
making a decision that is very real. <Feeling that "punishment" feeling.> That might be why you
avoid it. Some say that avoidance IS the compulsion with hoarding.
PURFEKSIONISM
Did it bother you I didn't spell that perfectly?
You may not want to make a mistake. An item may have a use some day and what if it's thrown out
in error? It's that perfectionism thing-the fear of making the wrong decision that you can't change.
Waste Not, Want Not
No really....not in the WASTE, over here on this pile
You may feel guilty about wasting things. An item may have a use some day, no matter how remote
it is. Some <compulsive savers> say ownership carries with it a responsibility to use a possession
properly. <In a way it's like>"Trying To Save The World".
You may not want to lose control over what is saved or thrown away (you're not ready to deal with
it yet) so you guard your things in many creative ways.
Not Tonight I have a Pile-Ache
You might fear social interaction. Things are safe...they don't hurt your feelings, die or disappoint.
Having a home full of things may be a protective mechanism so you don't have to engage with
others. Having the excuse "there's no place to sit" or you have to "sort through the things" gets
you off the hook from having people over or doing things that may be unpleasant to you. <Don't be
scared. We'll respect your boundaries.>
So I'm sorry about all the anger I've had. But my feelings matter too. I just never understood
before. Please know that there is hope and people do get better.
Love, Your Daughter
©2007 Donna Austin
Have you reached out to a person that hoards?
Go to ideas on opening up a dialogue Go to How & When to help from various sources
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