Has anyone secretly cleaned a hoarder's house? Need advice.

Valued Member Joined: Apr 12, 2008 Posts: 4

My husband and I live about 900 miles from our families, who live in a small rural community (pop. 1000). Weâ€™ve been married for 13 years and have known one another for more than 20 years. In all of these years, I have never been in his parents' house or even invited over. He is the child of a hoarder and only child. His stories of growing up with his motherâ€™s hoarding are painful and sad.

My husband grew up spending most of his time on weekends and summers at his grandmotherâ€™s (his momâ€™s motherâ€™s) house. When we go â€œback homeâ€ to visit, my husband used to stay with his grandmother or we both stay with my mom. A little over a year ago, his grandmother passed away. Since then, weâ€™ve been back a several times, and my husband usually stays with me at my momâ€™s, but also stays at his parentsâ€™ house. Until this past year, it has been probably more than three years since he has been in his parentsâ€™ house.

Iâ€™ve known about the hoarding for many years, and recently my husband confided in me how much worse it has gotten. We started trying to educate ourselves on how to help and seek advice on what to do and how to approach the issue with his mother (this website and we both read the book â€œOvercoming Obsessive Hoardingâ€). My husband knows that he cannot go in and start throwing things away, and over the past year each time he visits, he brings the issue up with her. Initially, she will attempt to avoid the topic or say that she knows she needs to get things put away and will then promise to start on it on Monday (my husband says that she has been saying this for 20+ years). If he presses on and wants a further assurance that she will get started on it, or insists that she start that day, she quickly gets defensive, gets very angry and easily lets her anger turn to rage â€“ yelling and cussing and then storming off, often followed by days or weeks of silent treatment or other insults or guilt trips for unrelated things.

He went back for a long weekend last month and found some frightening things. They have no refrigerator. The old one leaked for who knows how long, weakening the floor underneath so that it can no longer support a new refrigerator. The only place in the kitchen that you could stand is where the fridge used to be, but you canâ€™t even get into the kitchen since itâ€™s waist deep with no path. Navigation of the entire house is by goat paths, tighter in some areas than others. The front door does not open all the way due to the piles behind it. The garage is unusable as bags of trash that can never be taken to the curb are piled high. I won't describe what he saw in the bathroom. Most frightening is the basement. It is waist-deep. My husband remembers as a child that the basement often flooded, and he could see wetness on the floor in one spot where it was visible. The drywall on the stairs leading down to the basement has a black mold growing on it. Who knows what else is growing down there.

My husband talked to his dad about how bad the hoarding has gotten. He gave up many years ago and said itâ€™s just not worth the fight anymore. While both of his parents are relatively young (60-65), my father in law suffers from many ailments and is not healthy. Both of my husband's parents are often sick with terrible colds, bronchitis and sinus infections. We canâ€™t help but think itâ€™s related to the conditions in the house.

During this last trip, he again approached his mother about cleaning, citing his concern for their health, she reacted as predicted â€“ angrily and got up and left, followed by the silent treatment for the remainder of his visit.

She will not let anyone in the house, will not agree to see a counselor or therapist, and will not even listen to my husbandâ€™s pleas for her to get help or start working on the piles. Weâ€™re at a loss and feel that conditions are at a crisis point. We briefly discussed calling the county health department, but fear that the house will be condemned leaving them homeless. The more attractive option we discussed is sending them on a cruise for their anniversary this summer and doing a â€œstealthâ€ clean while theyâ€™re gone. While we realize this is not the recommended approach, we feel that we are at a point where something must be done as it has become a health issue and we donâ€™t have years to work on gaining her trust and convincing her to get started on it. Has anyone else out there ever done this? What was the hoarderâ€™s reaction? Any other suggestions on what to do?

BT

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject:

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation... and Welcome!

BT.

It sounds as though you guys have done your homework and understand the problems and realize there is no easy answer.

Does your MIL have any trusted friends, anyone's opinion that really matters to her? "Probably not", would be my guess.

Have you guys exhausted all avenues to open her eyes and heart to just how dangerous living this way is? My guess would be , "you think so".

I'm not an expert by any stretch, all I can give is my opinion. And that is not to do it behind her/their backs. Simply spell out her very limited options when her house gets condemed. Not as a threat, but as a fact. By a letter when all else (talking) fails.

Focus on the repairs only and let them figure out how to access those areas... just get her thinking of a small positive change... that may be a start.. but leveraging the facts even if she doesn't want to hear them is very important. Find a way to spell it out for her. It can't continue that way. Find out what she is willing to act on, and not just give lip service.

The 900 miles is a real problem I understand... I feel for you guys.

Maybe others here can give better suggestions? Wishing you all, the best.

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject:

I wish that I had some useful advice for you. I don't.

Being that your in laws live in a small town, other people in the town must be aware of their problems. Has anyone discuss their concerns with you? Has anyone reported them?

I agree that stealth cleaning does not work. People are VERY upset, as you would imagine. Putting myself in that place, I would be very upset if someone came into my house and decided to throw out most of my things, deciding what was of value and what was not. I am not a hoarder, nor do I have any problem with my cleaning lady throwing out stuff when she cleans the pantry and refrigerator. But I would be angry if she decided to throw out some of my clothes, or books, or shoes. It's seems like such a violation of privacy, or boundaries, to clean out someone else's house, and make decisions about their things. On the other hand, your in laws are in crisis mode, with junk so deep and with no kitchen. Something must be done, or they will soon be homeless.

Have you see anything about this film?
http://www.seethrough-films.com/mmg/ They did a very necessary stealth clean out, and their mother did not handle it well.

I'm afraid that there just are no easy answers. I wish that it was otherwise.

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:04 am Post subject:

Welcome BT. Your situation sounds completely overwhelming. I don't have any answers, more questions really. But I'm not against your idea either. How long would that cruise be?!?

I'm wondering, in reference to the garage, does your husband know if they even have trash pick-up?

If they can't get to the kitchen or store fresh food, where do they eat? I would guess those great senior specials. Churches usually have them and you can get carry out. Great place to put on the front and be "social".

Are their any functional spaces in the house? Where does he sleep when he visits?

Would your husband have his father's support? I think it is probably less likely their house would be condemned in a small community. A dumpster out front will definatley "out" them to the community.

If your husband grew up there, he might be able to distinguish between things she keeps, and things she just can't throw away. Does she shop, or just never gets rid of anything? How much space could be made if he just got rid of old newspapers, magazines, plastic bags, empty food containers, and cardboard boxes?

If the garage is full of garbage, would she allow HIM to clean it out? Remember that there is "stuff" from a previous lifetime under the garbage. It sounds like whenever they discuss it, it is about her cleaning it up and she obviously can't. That might make space to "churn her "stuff" out of the kitchen so the floor can be replaced for the fridge.

Then you get to the sink and find out it doesn't work, or they stopped using it because it leaks into the basement. So the basement needs access to the plumbing, water heater and furnace.....

I wouldn't try to do a total clean with them gone, but He might be able to accomplish enough to make necessary repairs. If he does anything, she's going to feel outed and betrayed. Has he tried talking to his dad, not about the hoard or the hoarder, but about the house, structure, roof, plumbing..etc...?

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing." -- Theodore Roosevelt

COH & ACOA Joined: Jul 22, 2006 Posts: 2031 Location: Cabo

Welcome BT!

Oh boy, what a tough situation you and your dh are in.

In addition to My Mother's Garden that Janie mentioned, here are some other things regarding those who have intervened to read? Like previously mentioned, unfortunately there are no easy answers for this, so all I can offer really is experiences from others who have done it.

(For me, what has helped my mom be able to have functional areas in her home, was to slowly get her to agree to boxing things up and letting them be relocated. I had to let her know that I know her things are important to her, won't throw anything away, just store it elsewhere so she could function. After the big "churn"--keep going back to keep relocating it every 6 months or so as it returns. As long as she knows I won't throw anything out, she lets me help do it.):

Hope the below will help some and not further confuse things for you:
Donna
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A cleanout done by a spouse of a hoarder while away:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/forum/ftopict-547.html

Here is a thread where some members here are talking about cleaning out while the person is away too:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/forum/ftopict-545.html

Hoarding & Interventions:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/forum/ftopict-756.html

Misc. comments about intervening:
http://www.childrenofhoarders.com/forum/ftopict-546.html

Here is a post from one of our members Elizabeth, back in 11/06:

Quote:

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject: Elizabeth (HDR=mom/3 sibs./did intrvntn 4/06)

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Posted for member, Elizabeth/biffernelson :

Here is my story:

I have three older siblings, I am the 'baby'. In my family, I play the role of 'troublemaker' and I have ALWAYS made a much bigger fuss about the hoarding than anyone else. Outside of the hoarding, my relationship with Mom was always much worse, because I was more rebellious and less willing to go along with her control issues. We were in an awful cycle during my childhood where I would disappoint my mother, she would say absolutely vicious and hurtful things to make me understand how 'wrong' I was, which made me even more resentful of her control and MORE frustrated by her expectations, then she would become more vicious, etc. etc. My worst crime was getting a D grade in U.S. History, but when I look back on it, I wonder why I wasn't out getting pregnant and doing drugs. It was *bad*, she was MEAN and I experienced something different in my childhood, different from my older siblings.

Flash forward to our adult lives, and I have been screaming and complaining to my siblings for the past TEN YEARS that we need to deal with Mom and Dad's house. My initial motive was probably anger, a wish for 'revenge', though I had it rationalized well enough that I was simply being 'rational'. Five years ago, my dad started having health problems, serious mobility issues that defined the house as a very real hazard to him. The house was spinning out of control just as my dad was struggling more and more.

I was living abroad when my parents planned a trip to visit my mother's family-- a few weeks ahead of the trip,my mother demanded a last minute change to her flight, so that she could stay on an extra week and my dad would fly home alone, to manage in the house on his OWN, for a week. I heard about that and I immediately got my own ticket to make the eight hour flight home, surprise Dad at the airport, and spend the week helping him while Mom was gone. That trip was SHOCKING. Mom didn't know I was coming, but she DID know that Dad would be forced to manage in that house by himself. I saw the house in an appalling state and I spent that whole week hauling out newspapers and trash, fuming at the cruelty of my mother, thinking he would have been able to live that way without help. Mom came home to the newly tidied house (or,rather ONE room of it) described her feelings as similar to 'being raped'. It went down in history as Proof that Elizabeth is, if not quite the anti-Christ, very close to it.

But that's not the REAL 'intervention'... not by a long shot!

Last november, I discovered hoarding as a disorder. I must have sent my siblings fifty internet links that first week I discovered that Mom's problem had a NAME! What a relief. The news totally transformed my brother's attitude-- once he could give our family problem a NAME, he was as eager as me to figure out a solution and tackle it. My other brother (who hoards himself) had a lot of trouble agreeing to any real ACTION, he was eager enough to say, "Well, there isn't a cure so that's a shame." My sister was supportive, so it was three against one. I spent the next few months finding out all the information I could and piecing together my OWN intervention plan...

Here was my plan (in a nutshell):

When my parents were away on a week-long visit to see our sister, my brothers and I would clean out the main common area of the house. Just the one floor, leaving the upstairs and basement as 'free hoarding' space for my mother. The goal: set new boundaries, contain the hoard, even if we couldn't stop the HOARDING, if it had to continue, at least it must stay OUT of my father's way. In terms of 'maintenance' and 'after-care', I contacted a home health aide agencies (specializing in the elderly) that do light housekeeping, and I found a counselor for Mom (a 'Christian' counselor, to satisfy Mom's religious fixation) who, while not an expert exactly, at least had EXPERIENCE with hoarding generally.

While they were away, my sister showed Mom videos of news stories about hoarding, to see how she would react. She paid close attention but was unable to 'connect the dots', didn't recognize a bit of herself in them.
During our cleanup, my reluctant hoarding brother barely lifted a finger, but it was difficult for him to be completely unsupportive while Good Brother and I were killing ourselves for that week.

When Mom came home, she was given the impression that we ALL worked together on it, which was true of course, but not all of us worked as 'hard'... Seeing all three of us sitting there in the newly cleaned house shocked my mother-- she is used to blaming ME for everything under the sun, but she didn't know how to react to seeing my brothers were a part of it, too. The fact that my brothers were involved made her want to be grateful, instead of angry.

We talked to her that very first night she got home,when she was still in shock and hadn't had time to really think through what we had done and notice all that we had thrown away. She was embarrassed and made a lot of excuses about how she really WAS on the verge of 'taking care of' the mess we had cleaned. We got her to admit a lot, just general things about an inability to make decisions and a tendency to get overwhelmed. That conversation went much better than any of us expected it would, though she did make a big deal of how she SHOULD have been there to supervise our work and it should NOT have been done in her absence. We asked her about the hoarding videos she had seen a few days before and she didn't see the similarities (geez). We gave her a copy of the Overcoming Compulsive Hoarding book, which my siblings and I had all signed for her. I told her that I had made her an appointment with a counselor who had experience with people who 'had trouble making decisions about the things in their house' and she agreed to see her (whew).

It was important to talk to her RIGHT AWAY after her arrival home, because twelve hours later, she had compiled her list of 'grievances', all the things she couldn't find, all the things she 'needed' desperately. Those first few hours back, she was in shock, but by the next day she was FURIOUS. On that day (her most furious day) we had a BIG crowd of family over to the house-- the grandkids were running around and playing, we were all socializing in a way that hasn't been possible in thirty years or more... it was just the most wonderful happy family-all-together time, and my mother was walking around in a daze, trying to pick fights with us but not ever getting very far because there was too much POSITIVE energy in the house with all of us enjoying each others' company. It was surreal.

A couple days later, I approached my dad with the brochures for home health aide agencies. None of us were sure how well he would take this suggestion, because they haven't had hired help in the house... ever. He was enthusiastic, picked an agency he liked and while I was there, they had an appointment and Dad signed a contract for service, twice a week for three hours each visit. Mom had trouble with this, but couldn't protest. It would be irrational-- all these years she has been complaining that the house is a mess becasue she has no help. There you go.

I made a photo album for my mother, with before and after pictures of the whole house (the after pictures were only on the few pages of rooms we were able to clean that week) and included lots of inspirational quotes about 'new beginnings' and finding motivation for big tasks, that sort of thing. Mom studied the photos closely because she was looking for things that were missing, looking for excuses to complain. I think it was good for her to look real closely at these photos, because they tell the truth about how bad the house really was (and still IS, in parts).

A couple little details in the plan: Dad was kept 'innocent' (didn't even know we were doing it), because he has to LIVE with her and she would make his life hell if she thought he was to blame. We didn't tell anyone else, either, because we really didn't want to humiliate her unnecessarily. I had an opportunity to point this out to her at one point, and I think she did grasp the concept that we were as compassionate as possible-- I told her that we had contemplated bringing her pastor into the house to see the problem and that made her very quiet. Her church (all the people who have never seen the house and never will) are the only people whose opinions she claims to respect. If her secret was revealed to them, I cannot imagine how she would cope. I think it might have scared her to realize that this almost happened.

It is now one month later and I had an opportunity to see the house. It is being maintained. My father says that in the few days between visits from the cleaning person, Mom trashes parts of the house as much as she possibly can, but then she has to scramble to clean it up again before 'cleaning day.' It is stressful and she complains about it. But the agency in informed about the hoarding problem and knows to phone ME if Mom tries to cancel appointments. Mom tried to cancel during the second week and between my sister and I we made it clear that this tactic was not going to work. Mom now seems to understand that there is a contract for services and cancellations aren't acceptable (of course, with normal clients, the odd cancellation is acceptable, but we can't pretend that Mom is 'normal').

When Mom complains now, I don't waste time arguing with her, I just encourage her to talk to her counselor about it. Who knows how far she will get with the counselor, but any hour scheduled into my mother's week is one less hour she can be out doing compulsive shopping. She has voiced that specific complaint,too: with the six hours she must be home to supervise the cleaner, she doesn't have time to go out and SHOP. Hallelujah.

It all feels like a house of cards ready to tumble but it is still standing for NOW. It's like bailing water out of a leaky boat and as soon as you feel like you're keeping up and have it under control, you just cross your fingers and hope that the leak doesn't get BIGGER.

I know that all the experts advise against this approach of cleaning behind someone's back, but I have to say that we tried to do it as compassionately as possible, anticipating what might happen AFTERWARDS, and for my family, at least, it was NOT a horribly traumatic event. Mom was pissed, sure, and the cleanup was no CURE for anything, but she did not have breakdown and she did not cut us all off. She admitted to my aunt recently, "I don't think Elizabeth is angry with me anymore. She thinks I have an illness." For all I know, her tone of voice indicated the added meaning, "Isn't elizabeth confused and misguided to think that *I* have an illness!" but I'll be grateful for small miracles. Mom UNDERSTANDS that we weren't trying to punish her and we weren't just trying to be mean to her. She seems to understand that we think she is ill. That is progress.

Elizabeth

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Valued Member Joined: Apr 12, 2008 Posts: 4

Thank you so much for the encouragement and advice! It is so helpful to know that others are going through this too. I especially liked reading the post from Elizabeth - thanks, Donna.

To answer some questions:

My mother-in-law is not a compulsive shopper. Rather, she simply cannot throw ANYTHING away. Imagine never throwing away one piece of junk mail over the course of 20 years, or anything else for that matter - not even food or wrappers. She presents fairly well and has many friends, though I'm not sure that she is truly close to anyone or confides in anyone. She waitresses part time and in turn she and my father-in-law eat free breakfast every day and sometimes lunch and/or dinner (convenient since their kitchen is unusable). The rest of the time, they go out to local restaurants.

As for functional space in the house, there are 2 chairs in the living room that can be sat on, if you move a pile out of the way, you can watch tv. They sleep in separate bedrooms, but the beds are really the only place one can get to. When my husband visits, his parents sleep together and he sleeps in his old room. You can get to the toilet and the shower and wash your wands in the bathroom, but it's tight and not clean. They really do not spend much time at the house - most of their free time is spent drinking coffee at the local cafe and socializing there and at other cafes and restaurants nearby.

No one has reported them to local authorities that we know of. I think my mother-in-law thinks that no one knows about the hoarding, but it is a small town and people talk - it's not a secret to say the least. But, she does a good job of keeping people out of the house - as far as she knows, it's still a secret to me even. No one is invited over - EVER.

My husband has talked to his father at length about if his mother would listen to someone else. His father says that she respects us the most out of anyone, and if she listens it to anyone, it is my husband. In a recent telephone conversation, my father in law stated that since the last visit, she did manage to leave a small bag of trash out this week (pickup is weekly). He is more lost than my husband and I on how to go about getting her some help. He also is tired of fighting about it with her and I think has gotten used to the house being the way it is. Since they're never home, he doesn't have to look at it. Out of sight, out of mind.

Our Plan as of Now:

Given the advice in this post, I think we need to "exhaust all avenues." I'm not sure that we have. Plus, my husband and I have talked about the consequences if we do a stealth clean - that she could never speak to him again. Despite the resentment he feels towards her, he loves her, and he knows his father loves her, so not having a relationship with her would be a worse case scenario. So, we plan to write a letter (thanks for the advice) and send her a copy of the book we read (Overcoming Compulsive Hoarding) along with some names of local therapists (as close to local as we can find given their rural area). We'll follow it up with a short visit to see if she's making any progress and then re-assess. I seriously doubt she will help herself, but I feel we must give her the opportunity.

I've found this to be very therapuetic and will keep you posted as to our progress (or lack thereof)!

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject:

BT wrote:

No one has reported them to local authorities that we know of. I think my mother-in-law thinks that no one knows about the hoarding, but it is a small town and people talk - it's not a secret to say the least. But, she does a good job of keeping people out of the house - as far as she knows, it's still a secret to me even. No one is invited over - EVER.

I think removing the power of secrecy can be a big motivator for some hoarders.

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject:

Good for you guys. Something positive to sink you teeth into... It sounds like a good compassionate plan.

Just be ready for her to feel defensive and not want to talk about it with your husband (and you) at first, she may even still give the silent treatment if you try to force it, but now your father in-law can be an advocate for you guys... with your compassionate letter, the facts and information you will send her, he can help to open her eyes and heart to the idea of change at her pace... which will be very slow... but it will be a start!

Great Job and Great plan! Good luck and keep us posted!! friends & support

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject:

I wonder what legal recourse a hoarder might have in the event of a "stealth clean". I bet mine would explore her options... cruise or no cruise!

Active Member Joined: Nov 26, 2007 Posts: 89

If I had to choose between secretly cleaning the house, and reporting the situation to the health department, I would choose reporting them. First, because you really don't have a legal right to forcibly clean the house, and in theory the parents could take legal action against you. Second, because no matter how furious the parents are at being reported, I think that they would be even more furious at the people who did the cleaning, so I think it's better for those people to be strangers. (You could, in theory, deny making the report, but I doubt that they would believe this.)

One thing that I wondered about: If the place is condemned, do they have any money at all for rent? It sounds like they'd be much, much better off in a tiny studio apartment than in this hoarded house. I'm sure that they'd immediately start filling up any rented space, but for at least a little while they'd be free of the hoard and the associated health issues.

Crayfish

Valued Member Joined: Apr 12, 2008 Posts: 4

We are aware of the legal consequence of a secret clean (trespass, conversion, theft, etc.). His parents are not the litigous type - plus it would mean his mother would have to out herself in making any sort of report or claim. Nor, would my husband's father allow any sort of legal proceeding against us - he and my husband are very close. Besides, in such a small town, the police are all old friends of ours and I doubt that they would do anything other than to say, "next time get permission." So, we're not concerned.

If we were to report the problem, they would instantly know it was us. As for an apartment - they could afford a small one if they had to. They are by no means weathly, but have some savings and could manage. The problem with reporting or having strangers doing the cleaning is that she has hidden money all over the house (money and counting is another one of her obsessions). We would never hear the end of it if money went missing, and that may be more of a sin in her eyes than our doing the cleaning ourselves.

In other news, it seems that maybe my husband's last talk with his mother may have sunk in, at least a little. She put out a few bags for trash pickup last week! The first time in YEARS! She told my husband that it took her hours and hours to go through everything, but she's working on it (she is compelled to not only go through every piece of paper, but to tear each piece into tiny pieces before it can finally be thrown out).

His father said it didn't even make a dent, but I suppose he was feeling optimistic about her putting ANY trash out. Not having the benefit of knowing that progress must be at her pace, he went and bought some cleaning supplies and starting to dust while she was at work. Of course, she came home and threw a fit. This is yet another reason why we need to educate the both of them on this disease. Even after all these years of living with a hoarder, my father in law doesn't understand it. So, we're going to address the letter we're working on to both of them and hope that both of them read the book we're sending. We hope to finish the letter today and send it this week. I'll let you know how it goes.

COH & ACOA Joined: Jul 22, 2006 Posts: 2031 Location: Cabo

BT-
What about getting them a paper shredder? We got our mom one at WalMart-around $60? Was fun for her at first, she was LOOKing for things to shred, but now just another hoarded contraption. Maybe you will have more luck with your MIL since FIL is there to encourage using it?

Good luck with the letter writing! Look forward to hearing how it goes.
Donna

That black mold is scary-not promoting this product or anything, just the first thing that came up when Googled to give you an idea...there are home tests for mold (but of course ideally getting a pro in is the best, but....):
http://www.homestoreproducts.com/cart/index.html?target=Mold_Test_Kit.html

COH Under 18 yrs. Joined: Feb 15, 2008 Posts: 98

I guess this is a little late but I agree with the more direct approach like what you're doing. I just cleaned out my room a few weeks ago and that really hasn't worked out as well as I had thought. That was just for my right to have living space too. Cleaning it out when they're not there just would seem and seemed to me to just piss a hoarder off. It's like shooting a rogue grizzly bear with a bb gun. Along with that, if you sent them on a cruise for a week that could definitly be not enough time to clean a house (then again I don't know what you were palnning to do exactly.) We only got a quarter of my room clean (which I'm pretty sure isn't super hoarded) in several hours. So a proportionally, a house may take a bit longer than a week. The whole government thing sounds like a really good idea though. Good luck.

COH & Moderator Joined: Aug 01, 2006 Posts: 474

I have three ideas.

1) Get pictures.

2) Get pictures.

3) Get pictures!!!!!!!!

Your hubby needs the evidence for any sanity hearings, defense against any potential lawsuits, and so on.

As far as the cleanout. There's a balance there. It's almost impossible to get anything done with the hoarder around when it does come time to do the de-hoarding. You HAVE to get them away somehow. But they probably have to know that it's coming. My take is reporting them. Get the town involved.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. but you are definitely NOT alone.

Active Member Joined: Apr 29, 2008 Posts: 441

Hoarders are really unpleasant when they are threatened. However.. smiling

if you don't lay it on the line, state a logical case, and follow it up with a threat, like reporting it to the health dept. which could have HOMELESS consequences, they will never budge. Offering a more traumatic scenario followed with love and welfare concerns, as they will accuse you of evil, may bring her in line temporarily. Long enough to fix the health issues and clear out a lot of trash. You might be able to work with the health dept. by asking them for a warning letter, saying they have gotten numerous anonymous complaints without making it official. Also, getting a fire inspection might be helpful to the cause. My sister's insurance company does those before renewing the house fire insurance I think.

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:32 am Post subject:

VJ wrote:

if you don't lay it on the line, state a logical case, and follow it up with a threat, like reporting it to the health dept. which could have HOMELESS consequences, they will never budge.

This reminds me of the Intervention show I watched last night. The facilitator reitterated to the family that just because the addict was not living in reality it did not mean that they had to join her in her dillusions. They need to live their lives in their own reality and not enable her in hers.

Something else he said made sense in this hoarding context too: We, as people who care, can get as focused and wrapped up in the addicts (aka hoarder's) world as the addict/hoarder is in their own world. It can sap our souls and we need to step back before we can step forward with any real help. (major paraphrasing)

Active Member Joined: Apr 29, 2008 Posts: 441

After my father passed away, my three sisters and I realized that the property had to be cleaned so we could hire someone to stay with my Mom who had slid rapidly into Alzheimers. Actually, they nominated me and I was stupid enough to do it with my then husband's help. Even though Mom didn't know who I was, she sure knew I was touching her stuff and I had to ignore her anger as usual. Then after cleaning out the barn, loading dumpsters, painting, recarpeting, and even planting flowers, my two hoarder siblings got mad that I might have thrown out valuable stuff, and my third sis was upset that I was upsetting mom. Sigh...did I mention that I was 6 mos. pregnant? One sister came over and retrieved a lot of junk for her place, so it's still lurking. Ah the memories. Actually many of these posts are eerily similar. For the record, my mother had no alcohol or drug problems, and she was well educated, like living with a professor which was handy. She was just nuts.

Valued Member Joined: Apr 12, 2008 Posts: 4

My husband's last visit and talk with both his parents might have done some good. My MIL says that she is "trying to get the place picked up" and my FIL reports that she put 2 bags out for trash pickup last week. I was elated that she had made this progress on her own - my husband was disappointed that she did not set out 20 bags.

I've learned from this site that the progress, if any, will be at her pace, not ours. My husband is having a harder time coping with that fact - he is so worried about their health.

We are still undecided about doing a stealth clean, especially if she continues to make progress on her own. We decided to make a surprise visit back home to check in on the situation. We'll decide from that point on what to do, if anything.

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: Re: An update

Hi, new to the board and so grateful and humbled by the stories. My mother is at the stage of anger and overwhelmed, over sensitive and stubborn. Thank God for all these 'possibilities'. I will tune in frequently and share a little myself. Dew in PHX. Bravo!