How do you think you are different....r/o...

Valued Member Joined: Apr 06, 2008 Posts: 3

from people that did not grow up in the Hoarded House?

Me, I have trouble knowing what is normal and what is not.
Going nuts

Valued Member Joined: Mar 20, 2008 Posts: 27

Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing.

Ok, for instance, my dad was the packrat. My mom gave up most of the time trying and she pleaded for change, but it wasn't to come. Later they divorced. I think the packratting of my father displayed the example of ineffectiveness, the value of stuff over people. For instance, my dad was not available to do things with us because he chose to sit home and tinker on things like mechanics and woodworking or lay on the couch watching tv. He also drank a fair amount of beer and was emotionally selfish. All that taught me that low effort in life and relationships was normal. See, when you are a child and live with that daily, you have no idea really how other people live. That there is time for people and activities. That relationships are important. I was taught that children are to be seen and not heard, so I was taught to be very unassertive and to always let everyone else's needs go first. This has radically affected my life and self-esteem. I gave up college and a career because I thought I couldn't do it. My dad was toxic to my life and has affected it even to this day and I'm in my 40's. I'm going back to school for a degree finally, but it really affected my self esteem about "getting things done."

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:18 am Post subject:

Hi BillyDove,

Normal has to be a comfort zone for you! There isn't one normal. That's what the pharmceutical companies are selling!

Normal starts with what you grow up in. It's all you know. It's that way until you find the need and the means to change it. And I think it's somewhat of an ongoing challenge to maintain your own normal. Everyone wants you to be like them... so that validates their normal.
Just remember that if your normal is different from theirs, that's OK. You are OK.

I know that sounds like just what our hoarders say to us, but dammit, they got to choose for their life, I get to choose for mine!

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:19 am Post subject:

By the way, welcome to this site, glad you found it!

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:36 am Post subject:

I very much agree with what you said, but only to a point, What2do

Quote:

Normal has to be a comfort zone for you! There isn't one normal. That's what the pharmceutical companies are selling!

Normal starts with what you grow up in. It's all you know. It's that way until you find the need and the means to change it. And I think it's somewhat of an ongoing challenge to maintain your own normal. Everyone wants you to be like them... so that validates their normal.
Just remember that if your normal is different from theirs, that's OK. You are OK.

I know that sounds like just what our hoarders say to us, but dammit, they got to choose for their life , I get to choose for mine!

It's the "but dammit, they got to choose for their life" point I don't completely agree with... because if their "normal" infringes on others in a negative way, then they shouldn't get to choose. That's why we have laws, isn't it?. We don't want people going around hurting others just because they had a rough childhood, do we? Yes, hoarding is not against the law... but it can hurt many others lives and when it does, they should lose that choice. I'm not sure how, but the CoH's living with the hoard should have a choice, too.

Really, thinking about it, ANYTHING, negative or positive, done to an extreme can't be considered "normal" even if it's all someone knows.

I don't know where we can draw the line and enforce anti-hoarding rules, but something should be done... maybe classes in school or something like that, perhaps changes through education not enforcement... who know's? I'll I know is, those choices are not fair or good and it can ruin others lives.

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject:

Sorry OAI, I should have bolded I get to choose for mine!

Quote:

I know that sounds like just what our hoarders say to us, but dammit, they got to choose for their life , I get to choose for mine!

Our situations are a little different. I don't live with my hoarder. I'm next door. I grew up in her normal. It is so much more than the hoarding...
I think Billydove is caretaking, but I don't know if it's a live-in situation. I can't express how even thinking about that makes me feel.

My point was that it is an ongoing challenge to maintain my own sense of normal. She has a natural expectation of me being like her, understanding her. To some extent I do, but that doesn't mean I have to accept it. I do have a choice. It's a painful one, but I have it.

I don't want to "enforce anti-hoarding rules". Sounds like a slippery slope.

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:22 am Post subject:

What2do,

Agreed, very much so.

I just wish the slippery slope, wasn't so slippery... and common sense and decency would take a priority in the hoarders mind.

I know, it's not a PC thing to say, because it steps on personal freedoms and such, but when someones habits effect others in a negative way, it just seems like something should be done, but as I already said, where does one draw the line?... hence, the slippery slope. pulling my hair out

..... agreed.

I guess, my original thought here was that "normal" shouldn't include extremes ... even if, it is all you knew, growing up. Now calling it "your" normal makes sense to me... and lends itself to getting any needed help... rather than just accepting extreme behavior by calling it just "normal".

Active Member Joined: Jul 16, 2007 Posts: 58

'Normal' is a relative term, indeed. For some, 'normal' hoarding is the hoarding of goods etc. For other hoarders it includes animals, animal feces/urine etc. How does one split hairs between rotting piles of garbage and animal waste, I'm not sure. Lol, it's all the same to me. Last time I was at my mom's (the dusty spatula in the bathtub, kiddie pool of 'kitty litter' in the basement) it was one and the same to me. I remember as a young child (5-7 years old) wishing, praying, that I could be 'normal'. Later on I found that 'normal' doesn't exist. Instead I ask, 'what is healthy?', 'what is productive?', 'what helps others?'. To this day if you were to ask my mother, aunt and grandmother if the way they live is 'normal', they would emphatically say 'Yes!'. Well, it isn't in relative terms. It isn't in health terms - both physical and mental. But you can't talk about that with them (ya see, I am 'them' and now they are 'them' to me!).

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:30 am Post subject:

Wow, all these years, I thought litter boxes had to be in the dining room! <wink>

Valued Member Joined: Apr 23, 2008 Posts: 5

WOW you guys had cat box's we had empty soda case box's. We had 36-52 cats we feed them by putting the food out on the deck in piles. food outside and cat box's inside lol CRAZY!!

Valued Member Joined: Apr 28, 2008 Posts: 13

I wasn't going to post here because the house I grew up in was far from normal. However, my grandmother (mom's mother) was really clean. Nothing ever out of place. Take your shoes off at the door. Every room made up like a hotel. Don't sit in the living room. Plastic on the living room furniture because that room was for show only. She stayed in the kitchen washing dishes. So she was extreme in her obsession to keep things clean and my mom went to the far left of being extreme to show she wasn't going to ever clean or throw anything away. Strangely, I seem to be in the middle. I just wonder how my son is going to turn out.

Valued Member Joined: Apr 29, 2008 Posts: 2

First off... I just want to say how thankful I am to have found this site and hear that there are people around that have had similiar experiences and feelings to me.

Growing up in a house that was constantly filled with stuff and having a father that choose the stuff over me and my mom (he was given the ultimatum to get help or we leave... he openly choose the stuff). I think it leaves many of us with the idea that we are not worth as much as the stuff our parents are hoarding (which is so sad considering that most of the time the stuff is complete garbage). I think it gave me a really bad self esteem... as well as a constant need to get rid of everything because stuff makes me feel sufficated.

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: How am I different?

First I also am a mild hoarder. I have trouble getting rid of 'useful' things like clothes or my computer/electronics stuff. Now (thanks to me wife!) at least my clothes all fit into my closet and most of my computer gear is at least in a container. My books are stuffed on a shelf (and yes I've actually read all of them) and my daughter's room is spotless. I love to vacuum because I can vacuum the entire apartment. Sometimes I need a little bit on encouragement from her to actually start the vacuum, but I still like to do it. It is also a daily struggle to keep the clutter from getting out of hand.

Some interesting skills... I am great at visualizing and estimating space and navigating mazes. You need to know where to stack stuff so that it doesn't fall over, or how much room you need over here to move the stuff off of a chair to sit down over there. And you needs to know the best route to move through an enclosed area so that you don't knock something over, or hit a dead end ;-) I can organize small amounts of items, but too many and I over organize. I know the exact small of a dead mouse. Car trunks are for extra storage. If I have a 'mess' (full room/office desk) that I made, I actually can remember and find almost any specific item or paper in the mess within just a few minutes.

Finally I learned from the Marine Corps that I CAN clean an entire room in a few hours (or maybe pull an all-nighter) because an inspection is a great motivator.

Active Member Joined: Apr 29, 2008 Posts: 441

I am different in that I had to try to figure things out for myself at a very early age, making me oddly self reliant. Being low on the priority list, I had a huge drive to take care of myself, think for myself, and to question what anyone else said. I learned how to not take up much space, travel light and if I owned something, to take care of it. I am hyper-vigilant in a quest to observe all I can and learn about things I feel clueless about, like social skills, cleaning, dressing well, decorating, and proper animal care. I worry about making a bad impression because I missed something in that quest for normal. I don't have confidence even though I know I have a lot going for me, and I'm easily stressed. I became a different parent because it was so very important to me to provide the nurturing and support system I missed, and I'm hoping I did it right. My daughter took full advantage too, every time they asked for a parent volunteer, her little hand was raised, saying "My Mom will do that!".

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject:

I used to worry all of the time... avoided confrontation... let things happen to me. I would avoid any alone time, was always using food or TV, or computer games as a distraction. It wasn't until I found the COH website that I realized that I was doing that... I never really understood what "loving yourself" meant. I'm 42 now and have finally figured it out.
smiling

I am making sure that my kids learn how to take care of themselves. I think actually talking to them is the best thing a parent can do! My daughter sees my husband and I debating a topic and she'll say "stop fighting!!" My husband and I smile at one another and make sure she knows that it's OK to disagree and to voice your strong opinion and that you can still love one another and be happy.