Misc. Advice on intervening

COH & ACOA Joined: Jul 22, 2006 Posts: 2031 Location: Cabo

DO we Intervene? HOW to Intervene? Where To Get Help?
How to handle this?

We don't have the clear-cut answers, but can offer information and suggestions from professionals, hoarders, family members, and anyone else who has any! Please feel free to post anything you've got that might help others:
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Posts about interventions by COH at Yahoo Group:
Message #3351
Re: [COH] Re: Any real success?

Elizabeth wrote: some professionals say
"it's their choice to live that way, leave them alone."

This rubs me the wrong way, too. I do think that this advice can
only be pitched by someone who clearly has NOT experienced hoarding
by a family member.

This is sort of my pet peeve, I guess. I don't think any doctor
should act surprised by us wanting to clean up or treat US like the
illogical and irrational ones for approaching this problem in the
'wrong' way. I feel like if they were faced with it like we are,
their answers would not seem nearly so 'obvious'...
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From: "nashbabe7"
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:59:17 -0000
Subject: [COH] Re: Any real success?

All they would have to point to was that recent apartment fire
(NYC???) of a hoarder. I believe 14 people were injured and the
hoarder seriously so.

I think it goes back to that legal mumbo jumbo about not making
mentally ill people accept treatment. Okay, if they are still sane I
guess that could be done, but if they are clearly psychotic or
delusional or insane, can we really say "it is their choice" to not
seek treatment? Truly, are they in their right mind and able to make
such decisions rationally? Isn't it the point that they are NOT able
to make those decisions and are endangering themselves and others?

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Insights to helping a Hoarder, from a member at the Messiness and Hoarders Board:

Knowing what I've learned from this group and other resources, here's
what I would do in your situation:

* I would not throw anything away unless it's rotten food or
something that will spoil

* I would emphasize to your mother over and over that you are
throwing NOTHING away without her permission; keep in mind at all
times that you wouldn't want people giving away your stuff without
asking, and that calling it 'junk' or the equivalent may make her
defensive. The point of this is to get her trust so that when you go
through the things with her, she'll feel you're on HER side.

* Take before photos -- nothing helps momentem when spirits start to
flag than looking at the progress you've/she's made

* I'd sort and organize and put everything that I'd *LIKE* to get rid
of into boxes and bins and bags, and store them, even if it means
renting a storage unit. I would *not* take them into my own home
(could be threatening for her to think you've 'taken' things; also,
sets a horrible precedent of letting her problem lapse over into your
life more than it already does. If you can't afford a storage unit,
it may be that you can stack the boxes such that the junk takes up
less space that way anyhow.

* while you're packing, try to keep like things together (see below)

* while she's laid up will be the PERFECT time to go through the
boxes with her. Be prepared -- you can think about this as you pack
things -- with suggestions for places you can get rid of things that
aren't just trash, that will make her feel good. If there's any
charity or church or neighbors or relatives who could use things,
don't hesitate. With my parents, "I'll bet Alice could use these"
worked much better than "these can go to the Goodwill"

* When possible, and if you are sure you can get away with it, say
you'll give things a good home and then take them to your place and
get rid of them as you see fit. Obviously, you will have to actually
KEEP enough of it so that she doesn't clue in. Or here's a BRILLIANT
scheme -- my mother had a zillion trillion baskets: we told her that
my sister saves baskets and fills them with goodies and gives them as
presents, so we got permission to send ALL baskets to my sisters
house, and I'll bet about 1/4th of them actually made it to her house
(the others went to Goodwill and she'll never know because my sister
has given them away as gifts, right?

* do anything you can to gently persuade her that this is a problem,
not just 'clutter' or a need to 'get organized'. If there's a doctor
or minister or friend who she trusts, who can help, that's great --
if your mother is like my father, she won't think that her kids could
know ANYTHING.

* Go through the old posts here to see the tricks people here are
using on their OWN hoarding problems -- take photographs of things
and keep the photos in neat albums rather than keeping the things
themselves; list things in a journal; help her to think about how
good someone who can't afford new things will feel if they can buy
her still-good castoffs affordably at the Goodwill and how that is
much better than having them unused for years at her place; and since
you (as much as possible) kept like things together you should be
able to point out to her that she has 11 turkey basters and can't
possible use more than 1 at a time (so she won't say "but I might
NEED that!"); remind her that she does need to get rid of things,
and that if it takes a week for the first box you'll never finish --
you are donating your time and you're doing it because you love her
and you respect that these are her things, not your things, but she
needs to respect that dealing with this is eating up YOUR life; if
you're willing to put on a garage sale then do that (we were not
willing to do that). If you have a connection to any charitable
group, see if they collect used items, see if they're planning a
rummage sale, tell them you can pretty much supply half a rummage
sale all by yourself if they WILL have one -- we got rid of LOTS of
stuff that way (and if nobody is having a rummage sale, is your town
big enough that you could invent a non-existent rummage sale, and
give things to Goodwill or take them to the dump?)

* be alert for categories of things that she simply CANNOT handle
getting rid of -- with my father, it was shoes and anything made of
cloth. You may have to resign yourself to saving all of certain
categories for the moment, say, a couple of hundred towels -- but
it's better to keep the momentum going and get rid of things that are
easier for her. On the other hand, if you find that there are
categories of things that are easier for her to get rid of, ask
whether she'll give you permission to throw all of that type of thing
away

* remember that getting rid of any tiny little thing may make her
just off-the-graph anxious -- try to make sure she's got her favorite
tea or cookies or whatever, music, whatever she finds relaxing

Now, if you can do all of that without going nutso bonkers crazy, you
are a saint! Do you have siblings who can help? We found that my
sister could handle my father's craziness better than I could, and I
could handle my mother's (own different brand of) craziness better
than my sister could -- that helped a lot.

That was all written assuming that if you can box things up and make
the house presentable enough, she can stay there, with medical staff
if necessary. Is that the plan?

I didn't know all this when I started, and we alienated our father by
calling his hoard 'junk'. Also, even though we swore blind that we
wouldn't throw things away, I'm afraid we did, because we were very
sure that, given the uncountable number of grocery bags full of milk
cartons, they wouldn't know how many there were, and we got rid of
2/3 of them without asking. We respected that these were THEIR milk
cartons, but defined milk cartons as 'garbage' anyway. Also, we got
into areas of the house that hadn't seen the light of day for 35
years, and were sure that we could get rid of rusty old fans and
things without them remembering they owned them.